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Thread: Farcry 5: Because Everything Is Political!

  1. #101
    El Shagmeister
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Under your fingernails.
    I am made anew by the blood of forum newbies.

  2. #102
    Taking a break
    Registered: Oct 2013
    I will grant Renzatic one point.

    It's absolute lunacy to think that the left is oppressing anybody.

    since holding that opinion makes me a crazy alt-right wingnut, then Renzatic also must think that Fareed Zakaria a raging bigoted alt-right lunatic: http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017...egment-gps.cnn


    Are you all starting to notice a trend here as to where I get my beliefs from?

  3. #103
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    No, I'm perfectly okay with his opinion on the matter, because I'm a liberal scarecrow who's opinions are arbitrarily decided depending on where a topic falls on the grand left/right spectrum. WATCH ME WAVE MY BROOMSTICK ARMS AROUND!

    Would it surprise you to know that I actually do agree with the guy, and not because he's posting on CNN (THAT HEARLD OF THE RIGHTEOUS LEFT, HALLOWED BE ITS NAME), but because he's right. These college kids are a shrill, histrionic, not too terribly bright bunch, and it's not their place to shut down public speaking events just because they don't agree with their politics of the speaker. Oh, they can bitch about them all they want. Call them names if they feel the need to do so. But if these are people are invited to speak, then let them speak.

    All these protests do is make the target of their ire look good due to the overplayed opposition against them, not in spite of it.

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2009
    Location: Pawtucket,Rhode Island
    You wanna know why a huge majority of Shareholder based companies espouse socially progressive value at least in regards to the culture wars because on Labor issues they are very Neoliberal and Conservative.Its because supporting those causes is good for business,it leads to less boycotts and it when it does its from demographics who aren't really go be missed.Surprise surprise but Lower and Upper Middle class people in the cities and suburbs have more a disposable income than people living in decaying industrial centers and the rural parts of this country.Its not that these businesses or Capitalism has suddenly developed a conscience,its they found that go with the follow and changes it attitude is better for business,so it less of principled stance and more of a cynical money grab.

    Most American don't even understand what Liberal even means Liberal in the rest of the world means classically liberal which is a right leaning or center ideology not even remotely approaching the left of center.Those types are referred to as Neoliberals here in the states,mean while the social and cultural side is social liberalism which is completely different from economic liberalism.The Democratic is also not leftist at all especially not the majority or the party leadership,Their Corporate centrist or center right with a social democratic slant.There really is no real left leaning option in the US except for a very small segment of the Democratic Party since both of the major parties are god awful or half assed when it comes to Labor issues.

    The Republicans steer the blame toward immigrants and minorities and constantly promising to bring back jobs that are never coming back because their industries are dead or dying.Sticking their head in sand about the fact that we have situation of more people than there jobs which is only gonna get worse as Globalization,Free Trade Agreements and Automation spread on top of the fact that we have a society where full gainful employment of everyone working age citizen is impossible.On top the fact of their steadfast refusal to embrace future or the fact the we need expanding programs that that attempt to deal with massive and ever widening inefficiencies of our economic system that can not and will not meet the needs of its citizen.But instead want cut them which is gonna have unintended consequences of removing quite of lot of revenue from the economy which is quite bad in a system that requires the exchange of goods and services.But sadly we don't have the data about how much of any given business revenues are derived from people on these social services that they would lose after cuts and whether that could lead to greatly decreased profits and thus layoffs shrinking the job market even further.


    The Democrats especially the mainstream wing,they bring out the prop of supporting labor every election year but once the votes have been cast we get thrown to the side.Plus they do themselves no favor in embracing identity politics that is so thoroughly devoid of class analysis and divides solely along racial and other identity lines.People of Color and other oppressed groups are not in their situation based on their identity because you give them all the advantages and privileges afforded to whites,your still gonna have really high rates of poverty and class based issues.Identity Politics devoid of class analysis would imply that every white man is a king in the current society but we all know that isn't true, because if it where we wouldn't have high rates of poverty and unemployment with accompanying social problems like alcohol abuse and substance abuse including the ever worsening opioid epidemic which is brought on not by a individuals moral failing but despair by an ever worsening economic and social situation.Not to mention increasing rates of suicide and early death caused increasing stress due to economic insecurity and other social pressures.All of this among those supposedly belonging to the socially and politically dominant group. That shows us that there are other forces at work outside of systematic racism and that just removing one is not gonna enough to address the problem since there is far more in play.The Democratic and the mainstream left's failure to address these issues is what has allowed the forces represent by Trump and the alt right to fester.But the Democrats will never embrace this change hence their primary election shenanigans and refusal to put Single Payer Healthcare or let along any radical policy primally for the benefit of the working class which is not the same as the Middle Class as some try to imply.They refuse to do this because they are still the primally the party of Wall St and don't want to offend the party's donor class.Not to mention they think they can fix the problems via legislation and reform despite how rigged against that our legislative bodies are with gerrymandering,campaign finance issues and lobbyists.No to mention that history will repeat itself because if they were to somehow able to pass some form of regulation or reform the affected industry will spend the subsequent years or even decades funding political campaigns and lobbying for its repeal like the financial sector did with the reforms put in place in response to the Great Depression and all the gains made Organized Labor.

    So here in the US we are stuck with 2 really horrible options and all of our third parties either don't have chance in hell or the strongest one (The Libertarian Party)is a joke and misuses of the world libertarian.Since in the rest of the world Libertarian refers to Anarchists with communist leanings.But it was co-opted by right wing fascists apologists like the people behind Pinochet in Chile.Libertarianism in America should more aptly be named Propertarian or Neo-Feudalism.


    On the Subject of Far Cry 5 its not Republican Murder Simulator unless your admitting that the Republican Party as turned into a Right Wing Fascistic White Christian Death Cult think of ISIS only of the Cross and not the Crescent.
    I see it less in that light and more like a the residence of a small town/county in Montana suffering hard times being sold lies by a mad man who claims to be a prophet instituting a theocratic dictatorship and you play either a resident or a traveler who get sucked into this mess who teams up residents who a sick and tired of the situation and taking matters into their own hands to deal with it.Think of the Situation in White Fish,Montana which was being flooded with Alt-Right,Neo Nazi and White Supremacists types and residents didn't want that or be known for that so they tried to run them out of their town.

    Also The Right doesn't get to play the victim card when they continue to make bad decisions that blow up in their face and never work out at the state level and then decide to drag the rest of the country along with them whether we want to or not.

    Also if it seems like there are not a lot of powerful international institutions run or dominated by conservatives that could just because its not the batshit American Strain because there a plenty who love to call for your guys favorite stuff:Austerity Measures.If they seem socially liberal that just because of the seem reason that a lot of corporation's don't embrace that stuff because its an awful business decision.

    Social Programs and Welfare:We don''t the money for that,national debt wah deficit wah

    War:Oh look a Money Tree

  5. #105
    Taking a break
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    No, I'm perfectly okay with his opinion on the matter, because I'm a liberal scarecrow who's opinions are arbitrarily decided depending on where a topic falls on the grand left/right spectrum. WATCH ME WAVE MY BROOMSTICK ARMS AROUND!

    Would it surprise you to know that I actually do agree with the guy, and not because he's posting on CNN (THAT HEARLD OF THE RIGHTEOUS LEFT, HALLOWED BE ITS NAME), but because he's right. These college kids are a shrill, histrionic, not too terribly bright bunch, and it's not their place to shut down public speaking events just because they don't agree with their politics of the speaker. Oh, they can bitch about them all they want. Call them names if they feel the need to do so. But if these are people are invited to speak, then let them speak.

    All these protests do is make the target of their ire look good due to the overplayed opposition against them, not in spite of it.
    You would be 100% correct if it was just "college kids". It isn't just the kids though, the faculty and administration for the most part fully support that.

    Also if it seems like there are not a lot of powerful international institutions run or dominated by conservatives that could just because its not the batshit American Strain because there a plenty who love to call for your guys favorite stuff:Austerity Measures.If they seem socially liberal that just because of the seem reason that a lot of corporation's don't embrace that stuff because its an awful business decision
    If you think that these countries are implementing "Austerity Measures" out of ideological reasons I would LOVE to show you an Econ 101 textbook.

    Ever heard of the phrase "bond default"?

    And notice how those austerity measures have generally been taking place in countries that had generally socialist-leaning policies? I wonder what possibly could have happened wit their fiscal policy to put them in danger of being a government in default the moment the economy downturns.

    *vastly oversimplified, but I'm alluding to a more complex topic. Basically......what those governments did is the equivalent of going out and buying a Ferrari because you got a huge bonus check this year and have calculated that if you get an equally large bonus check every year for the next ten years then you can afford it no problem. You can imagine how well that works out if, for example, your economy is based on a single export that just saw the price fall by half and chose to spend the previous windfall on consumption rather than building out fundamental economic infrastructure.

    Most governments these days are run by lawyers who couldn't manage a gumball machine. They'd spend everything in the bucket forgetting that they have save some to restock the machine.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 3rd Jun 2017 at 21:35.

  6. #106
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Ok done a little more research and I now see why having 2 separate threads in 2 separate sections of the forums was needed.

    So to sum up what I've read here and elsewhere (Kotaku):

    * Bunch of people pissed off that the game is set in the US and that it's about taking on christian fanatics. People who'd be perfectly fine with it if it was taking on Muslim extremists but not Christian fanatics. O.......k.

    I think this is another example of how the world has become too politically correct. Hence the outrage. "Oh I'm offended". Get over it. If you don't like it, don't play the game. Simple.

    Kinda like with Resident Evil 5. So many people got pissed off and said the game was racist, just because it was in Africa and had black people.

    I really hate what humanity as a whole has become and I want to get back to the 80s-90s when things were so much better, and people actually had a backbone. How did we get to this point? Things are just so stupid nowadays.

  7. #107
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    Er, RE5 had bigger problems than 'had black people'. It went a little too far with pushing stereotypes and depicting Africa as a land of tribal savages -- complete with spear-chucking zombies -- which is more than a little disingenuous.

    Having said that, yeah, there's always going to be outrage over something or the other. I find it funny that a game about a fanatical cult, Christian or otherwise, draws people's ire because of the colour of its members' skin. Didn't the poster have a bunch of different races in it?

    Edit: so, there's a token black dude on the far right. Diversity hire, I guess?

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    ...I want to get back to the 80s-90s when things were so much better, and people actually had a backbone.
    Ehhh... I remember the 80's and 90's. People were up in arms that D&D and video games existed. Very few devs dared to push any sort of cultural envelope; frikken Doom was controversial. We fought aliens, robots, zombies, Nazis, demons...

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Go earlier and there was a vocal minority accusing rock music of being the work of the devil.

    But that is VERY different to the political correctness that we see nowadays. It's never been like this before.

    And devs pushed every envelope back then. Every new game was new ground. New ideas, new game types. Doom was controversial because it was new. It was taking the FPS genre to a whole new level that had never been done before. Fighting Nazi's and demons is totally controversial.

    That said, we've been fighting demons in video games since nearly day 1. Might be controversial, but that certainly never stopped the devs from doing it.

    Metroid and Phantasy Star 1 had you playing as a female. Completely controversial stuff. Never stopped the devs from going with that choice. Phantasmagoria had gore overload. Didn't stop them.

  10. #110
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann
    But that is VERY different to the political correctness that we see nowadays. It's never been like this before.
    No, it hasn't. But then again, we haven't had the internet acting as an amplifier for every outlier group out looking for reasons to be angry and/or offended. Now we're inundated with idiots.

  11. #111

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    Another reason is that the trailer features two characters that rubbed the alt-right the wrong way: An African-American woman who appears to be some kind of rebel leader in the anti-Nazi insurgency, and a white man from the South who references the "proletariat" and rants against Wall Street and imperialism. The former, they say, is racist to white people, and the latter is a communist, which is even worse than being a Nazi.
    <>

    I refuse to pre-order games that marginalize America's white minority, or Nazis. Even Space Nazis.

  13. #113
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? I thought liberals were supposed to be the shrill, uptight ones.

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Washington DC
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    WHAT MADNESS IS THIS? I thought liberals were supposed to be the shrill, uptight ones.
    I think some people on both sides like to see dogwhistles where none exist, and journalists are happy to amplify their misplaced outrage for clicks.

    Resident Evil 5 is a good comparison- a handful of people assumed that because the trailer featured a white man shooting black men it meant the game was promoting racism*, and the controversy was magnified by widespread reporting. Then it turned out the game featured a black secondary protagonist and a mix of Middle Easterners and Europeans among the enemies. Trying to read into the political implications of a videogame from the content of a trailer is stupid, but as long as somebody's getting irrationally angry there will be gaming news sites eager to pick it up.

    * That said, Sulphur is right, the bit in the middle of the game with spear-throwing African tribal natives in grass skirts living in mud huts is downright farcical, but that's not what the pre-release controversy was about.
    Last edited by catbarf; 13th Jun 2017 at 18:16.

  15. #115
    Taking a break
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Resident Evil 5 is a good comparison- a handful of people assumed that because the trailer featured a white man shooting black men it meant the game was promoting racism*, and the controversy was magnified by widespread reporting. Then it turned out the game featured a black secondary protagonist and a mix of Middle Easterners and Europeans among the enemies. Trying to read into the political implications of a videogame from the content of a trailer is stupid, but as long as somebody's getting irrationally angry there will be gaming news sites eager to pick it up.
    You know what Far Cry 5, Call of Duty, and all of the other games you all are mentioning have in common?

    They train us to hate people that the corporate/government complex wants to see destroyed. In the mid 2000's it was middle eastern nations resisting the Saudi/Bush agenda, now they're more afraid of domestic resistance.


    How about we read into the political implications of a videogame from what is said at GDC?

    This was posted elsewhere.....the part I'm referring to (and the only ones I give a shit about) are the slides on the right hand side. Developers very openly and clearly state that they do have political agendas:

    http://i.imgur.com/ZGpN7R7.jpg

  16. #116
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    GUYS! THE MEDIA, GUYS! THE MEDIA! AGENDAS! NARRATIVES! OH MY!

    What we're seeing here is the thought process of the conspiracy theorist. Take a few things that sound vaguely threatening out of context, present them in isolation, slap up a few pictures of black people in videogames, and OH MY GOD MY CULUTRE IS UNDER ATTACK BY THE LEFT! LOOK GUYS! PROOF IT'S HAPPENING!

  17. #117
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    BATTLEFIELD 1: IN THE NAME OF THE TSAR? WHY DO THEY HATE THE WEST SO?

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    How about we read into the political implications of a videogame from what is said at GDC?

    This was posted elsewhere.....the part I'm referring to (and the only ones I give a shit about) are the slides on the right hand side. Developers very openly and clearly state that they do have political agendas:

    http://i.imgur.com/ZGpN7R7.jpg
    All humans have a certain point of view that is inherently political and these biases inform everything that they do. It's impossible to have a game that has no politics in it, because it's shaped by the politics of the people who did it. And just because something is the status quo or the default, doesn't mean that it's not political.
    Last edited by Starker; 16th Jun 2017 at 14:45.

  19. #119
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest
    Well, if the latest COD is anything to go by, they want us to hate Nazis. What was the enemy in Infinite Warfare? Space Saudis? The Emirate of the Great Red Spot? Something sci-fi-ish.

    I'm pretty sure Wolfenstein has you in the shoes of the domestic resistance.

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    Er, RE5 had bigger problems than 'had black people'. It went a little too far with pushing stereotypes and depicting Africa as a land of tribal savages -- complete with spear-chucking zombies -- which is more than a little disingenuous.

    Having said that, yeah, there's always going to be outrage over something or the other. I find it funny that a game about a fanatical cult, Christian or otherwise, draws people's ire because of the colour of its members' skin. Didn't the poster have a bunch of different races in it?

    Edit: so, there's a token black dude on the far right. Diversity hire, I guess?
    You do understand there are places in the interior with present day spear chuckers right? Do we ignore this for the sake of political correctness? Do we pretend the culture of the west has penetrated all corners? To what purpose? Cultural hegemony? Because someone has determined spear chucking to be a racist perspective? It works. It feeds the family. Chuck it all for the sake of OUR perspective? I don't like the twisting of facts to fit OUR sensibilities. Actual facts are a tad more important than some weenies perspective of what they ought to be for me. Actual facts are for me that what works and has been passed down over the centuries is still okay. Break it for the sake of another culture not so much.

  21. #121
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    Play the game first, Tockster. There are places in Africa with 'em, but they're hardly the rule rather than the exception at this point. Basing a decent portion of your game in said village complete with tribal overtones is pandering to an old-fashioned stereotype, and that makes me uncomfortable in those parts. Not enough to point at the game and say 'RAAAACIST', if that's what your impression is, but it's notable in how out of place it is in today's landscape. It may have been a Japanese dev's outmoded idea of a fun cliché, but it's a duff note; it adds nothing of interest to the game except a certain flavour, and that flavour is of subconscious cultural regression aided via zombie contagion -- an irony, perhaps, because the word zombi comes from African/French Creole in the first place.

    The perception of popular media can change over time. Would you call Emperor Jones an even-handed look at racial dichotomy today?

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    What if someone just wanted to make an outmoded, racially insensitive game? A 70s blaxploitation Far Cry could be all kinds of amazing.

  23. #123
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    In truth I don't know how much Africa has become westernized. Capitalism has been eating it at an increasingly fast rate. As inevitable as it is it still strikes me as sad. I like that we have not stamped our imprint on every culture. I don't want to see the last tree cut down and the last child wander out wearing Nikes. But I have not played the game. Oh wait. Hell I think I have. It ran wonky so I did not carry on past the initial first sequence or two. Isn't this an OLD game? Out for a couple of years or more? Maybe older than that. Hmmm. Either I have preconceptions myself and did not notice or I'm thinking of another game. It seemed no worse than Far Cry Africa as I recall.

    Oh well, carry on, I don't seem to know enough to condemn or defend the game anyway. I just know I don't like the cultural superiority inherent in being offended at another culture for not being western enough or for our depiction of it for not being western enough. What is cliche' to us may be everyday fare for others. Tarzan and Heart of Darkness were accurate to a large degree once upon a time though our response to it may not have been fair. Our attitudes may change about the working culture we stumble upon but that does not change how the culture was when we found it. If it hasn't "advanced" according to our standards then yay in my opinion. We are not the end all. Or we may well be but I find that diminishing diversity sad.

    Hell I think I confused myself. I thought I knew what I started out to say and lost my way in sentiment.

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Minecraft
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    Play the game first, Tockster. There are places in Africa with 'em, but they're hardly the rule rather than the exception at this point. Basing a decent portion of your game in said village complete with tribal overtones is pandering to an old-fashioned stereotype
    I'd hardly say it was a decent portion, only half of one chapter (out of 6) takes place in the tribal villages. It probably would have gone without notice if the racism frenzy hadn't already been whipped up at that point.

  25. #125
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    I remember spending more than an hour there; maybe it was shorter, but I don't think so. It was an appreciable enough portion of the game to make an impression.

    As far as the pre-release racism frenzy really was concerned, that really was over-reacting to the trailer. I don't see the point in slamming a game out of context, and in the context of the full game it wasn't trying to make any particularly terrible statements. It was just fairly stupid in some of its choices, which is an RE trademark, but that didn't stop people from putting more into it than there was. As I said, I found the village bit unnecessary as that was the first (and only) time the game made me go '...hrm'.

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