TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 76 to 100 of 182

Thread: Attack on London Bridge!

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    Anyways, to my mind, the big problem we've got is foreign wars and our willingness to participate in them. Thats the only real logical trigger I can think of for any of this shit. Cultural differences are a factor, but no-one gets convinced they should blow up a bunch of kids solely because they don't like bikinis, it's not how humans work. We need tighter control on our bombing habit more than we need it on our borders or our internet.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    I don't see how you can compare strict immigration control with violating human rights. No one has a "right" to enter the UK, France or really any other nation.
    If you ban people based on religion alone (or ethnicity), you are violating human rights.

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    but no-one gets convinced they should blow up a bunch of kids solely because they don't like bikinis, it's not how humans work.
    These guys aren't attacking your people because they don't like bikinis. They are fighting a war against you. This is how Islam has behaved for over a thousand years. They want everything you have - the land, gold, women, the whole enchilada.

    If you're willing to peacefully surrender and give it all to them, then fine (and your leaders are willing). If not, they will be happy to slaughter every last one of you.

    You have three choices:
    1) Convert to Islam
    2) Expel all muslims from your land
    3) Choose not to fight and be slaughtered until the last few remnants are made into slaves.

    Make the choice soon. Although even converting to Islam will not stop the bombing and fighting, because factions within Islam still attack each other.

  4. #79
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    That's ridiculous. You can't confuse the actions of a group of terrorists with the mindset of an entire religion, the vast majority of which live peacefully all over the planet, unless you're actively looking for reasons to be racist and/or a bigot.

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    If you ban people based on religion alone, you are violating human rights.
    What a strange argument. This is simply not true. Also as I said, sticking to your principles may seem fine to you now, but the Brits who have had to wash little girls' shredded flesh out of their hair might not see it so clearly.

    Right now the frequency of muslim attacks seems to be about one a week. You seem comfortable with that for now. But will you still be comfortable it it rises to twice or three times a week? What about daily?

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Europe has seen that and worse and didn't cower in fear and abandon its principles. Why should it now?

    Also, wasn't it an American who once said, "Those who would give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety"?

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    If you're referring to WWII, Europeans fought and defeated the enemy. They should do the same today. Where would England or France be today if they decided not to fight Hitler because #notallGermans were Nazis?

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    No, I'm referring to the 70s and 80s when there really was a terror attack every week.

  9. #84
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Europops
    You missed the 4th choice - live in harmony.

    You must be a very unhappy person Krush. A horrible dinner guest.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    Your personal attacks don't change reality. Oh I forgot, you're the guy who says Europeans HAVE to import the entire third world so SubJeff can get good multicultural food.

    Again, Europeans who have seen streets full of their friends crushed under truck wheels might start seeing it differently.

  11. #86
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    If you're referring to WWII, Europeans fought and defeated the enemy. They should do the same today. Where would England or France be today if they decided not to fight Hitler because #notallGermans were Nazis?
    Shitty analogy.

    A. We're fighting the enemy now. The enemy isn't Islam. It's ISIS.

    B. What you're advocating would be more like the government rounding up and deporting all Germans, because some of them could be secret Nazis.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: uk
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    What a strange argument. This is simply not true.
    What's your definition of "human rights"?

    It doesn't appear to be the same one other people are using.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Indianapolis, IN
    What's your definition of "human rights"?
    Don't bomb people, murder them, rape them, enslave them...

    Free movement of people into any country is not a human right.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    These guys aren't attacking your people because they don't like bikinis. They are fighting a war against you. This is how Islam has behaved for over a thousand years. They want everything you have - the land, gold, women, the whole enchilada.

    If you're willing to peacefully surrender and give it all to them, then fine (and your leaders are willing). If not, they will be happy to slaughter every last one of you.

    You have three choices:
    1) Convert to Islam
    2) Expel all muslims from your land
    3) Choose not to fight and be slaughtered until the last few remnants are made into slaves.

    Make the choice soon. Although even converting to Islam will not stop the bombing and fighting, because factions within Islam still attack each other.
    4) Ignore absurd false options and continue fighting terrorists.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    If you're referring to WWII, Europeans fought and defeated the enemy. They should do the same today. Where would England or France be today if they decided not to fight Hitler because #notallGermans were Nazis?
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Shitty analogy.

    A. We're fighting the enemy now. The enemy isn't Islam. It's ISIS.

    B. What you're advocating would be more like the government rounding up and deporting all Germans, because some of them could be secret Nazis.
    Or rounding up and deporting all Christians because the Nazi are Christians.

    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    Don't bomb people, murder them, rape them, enslave them...

    Free movement of people into any country is not a human right.
    Freedom of religion is human right, it was central to the founding of the US and it's a Constitutionally protected right.

  15. #90
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    Or rounding up and deporting all Christians because the Nazi are Christians.
    Well...sorta. Kinda. Not really.

    If Nazism were allowed to spread and flourish, Christianity probably would've eventually been greatly reduced, if not banned outright, since it gets in the way of the fuhrer being the object of everyone's affections.

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    The analogy to Krush's position is that since all Nazis were Christians, all Christians were potential Nazis.
    It's supposed to sound absurd, because it is.

  17. #92
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Yeah, I know. But I'm pedantic, so I had to correct you.

  18. #93
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    People in glass houses, dudehombre.

  19. #94
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It's dudebrah, Sulp. Dudebrah.

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2008
    Location: on a mission to civilize
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    If you're referring to WWII, Europeans fought and defeated the enemy.
    Actually, Russia is North Asia; so technically the Asians (with an assist by Great Britain, which is not European, and the United States, which is no where near European though a good chunk of its population is of European descent) defeated Germany, which is in Europe.

    So, Asia defeated Europe...stop being so confused.

  21. #96
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    ITT we discuss the US civil war against Germany.

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Well...sorta. Kinda. Not really.
    Meh? ISIS and its spiritual kin are routinely condemned by the Islamic establishment. The Nazis were relatively chummy with the pope.

  23. #98
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    They weren't outright hateful of Christianity, but their core ethos could be pretty much described as all Nazis, nothing else but.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2000
    Location: VIE, .at
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    So how do you propose to do things like banning muslims from entering the country without giving up the idea of religious freedom?
    I'd let anybody in, provided their acting upon religion and ideology does not interfere with the established baseline. Religious freedom is obviously less important than compatibility of culture and values, so someone entering the country or living in it must necessarily self-restrict. Freedom never means unlimited freedom as soon as there are two humans together in one place, so this idea of exercising moderation and acceptance should not come to anyone as a surprise. What I said is not abstruse or extraordinary; it's national law where I live and also part of the ECHR.

    And painting whole groups of people as an enemy based on the actions of a few is a well-trodden path in history that we know has disastrous consequences.
    Not necessarily, I think there's nothing wrong with enacting an ordinance for putting mild collective pressure on the Muslim population as a whole, recognising that the number one ideology for terror world-wide and in Europe is Islam¹ and Muslims insufficiently condemning those terrorists. I concretely have in mind:

    1. You are a state recognised religion, act like it. Places of worship must be part of the public. It is not acceptable to self-segregate behind private associations when there are 400000 adherents. You have one year to become a facet of society in the open and not in the shadows.
    2. The existence and sources of monetary support or missionaries/religious teachers sent from abroad must be made public.
    3. Failing the following compatibility test means the loss of privileges.

    * Abandoning one's religion should be…
    a) tolerated
    b) punishable by death

    * Acts of homosexuality should be…
    a) tolerated
    b) punishable by death

    * Adultery should be…
    a) tolerated
    b) punishable by 100 lashes

    * Associations with unbelievers should be…
    a) tolerated
    b) avoided

    * Drinking alcohol should be…
    a) tolerated
    b) punishable by 80 lashes

    * Insulting God or the Prophet should be…
    a) tolerated
    b) punishable by death

    * Stealing should be…
    a) punishable by up to three years of imprisonment
    b) punishable by amputation of hand

    * The final say over who a woman marries has…
    a) she herself
    b) the patriarch of the household

    * Unrepentent unbelievers should be…
    a) tolerated
    b) taxed under jizya
    c) killed

    * When I notice someone preparing an attack against unbelievers, he should be…
    a) reported to the police or state attorney
    b) tolerated
    c) commended for increasing the glory of God

    ¹ followed distantly by communism

  25. #100
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxim View Post
    I'd let anybody in, provided their acting upon religion and ideology does not interfere with the established baseline. Religious freedom is obviously less important than compatibility of culture and values, so someone entering the country or living in it must necessarily self-restrict. Freedom never means unlimited freedom as soon as there are two humans together in one place, so this idea of exercising moderation and acceptance should not come to anyone as a surprise. What I said is not abstruse or extraordinary; it's national law where I live and also part of the ECHR.
    I can agree with this to a point. The thing is, the vast majority of Muslims, at least here in the US, have well adapted to our culture. We've millions of them living here natively, yet it's only been, what, 10 who have stirred up trouble?

    To sum it all up nice and succulently: I have no problem with the FBI and CIA using all the (legal) tools at their disposal to look into potential terrorists, and handling them accordingly. We are trying to protect ourselves against a group of people who have declared America, Europe, and its peoples as enemies of their worldview. I only start taking issue when we start demanding the whole to bear the punishment for the actions of the few.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •