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Thread: Attack on London Bridge!

  1. #176
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    The invasion of Germany was allowed mainly because Merkel saw that picture of a dead Syrian baby washed up on a beach.
    Merkel said "Wir schaffen das" on 31 August 2015.
    Alan Kurdi drowned on 2 September 2015.

    You may disagree with Merkel on her policies. But it is ridiculous to think she was just reacting to a single incident. Or reacting to public pressure. She probably really believes (or believed) that Germany had to welcome refugees. You might have forgotten, but 75 years ago, the Germans kinda behaved like dicks. For some reason, they haven't forgotten that. And they try to be better world-citizens. (Have you ever seen a discussion-program or talk-show on German tv ? About the war, about violence, about any difficult political matter ? The difference with US tv-programs is astounding). This time they just tried to do what was right.

    Americans seems to focus on the terrorists. (Thanks Fox. Imho the biggest problem in the US is that US citizens seem to be the most frightened pussies in the whole world). In Europe, the discussions are more about true refugees versus economic immigrants. Not many people seem to be opposed against giving shelter to Syrian war-refugees. Even if they are muslims. But they don't want a 100+ million Africans coming in. Or people from Bangladesh, or more Pakistanis, etc.

  2. #177
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Gryzemuis, I don't agree with a lot you've posted in this thread, but you seem to want an actual discussion, and I appreciate that. Thanks.

  3. #178
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Is that just because I said something that fits in your line of reasoning ?

    Well, my two main points are that:

    1) I don't think migration of a few hundreds of millions people across the globe will make the world a better place. it's just not a solution that solves anything in the bigger picture. Stopping wars and fair distribution of wealth are necessary. Even though that may seem impossible in the eyes of warmongering and greedy americans.

    2) Religion is a political force. Christianity has been a huge political force for centuries. And only after WWII we were able to limit its power. The seventies and eighties have lulled progressive people to sleep. We (enlightened people across the world) need to make sure religion does not take back its power. Our first enemy in this regard is Islam. But we should always be careful to not underestimate the Christian fools as well. (Example: in the US 25%-30% of the population doesn't believe in any god. But in Congress, out of 535 members, there isn't a single atheist. That scares me).

  4. #179
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Well, 30% of the people in the country don't claim to be religiously religious. Doesn't necessarily mean they're outright atheists.

  5. #180
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Is that just because I said something that fits in your line of reasoning?
    Thanks for making me reconsider what I wrote... I would have said that you seem to be engaging in this thread in good faith, which can't be said for everyone. Your comment above would seem to argue against that, though.

  6. #181
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    Yeah. The thing is, a lot of people with Gryz's mindset don't realise that the advocacy of anti-religious measures with the exact same magnitude of religious stringency they're fighting is ironic at best, and self-defeating at worst. It's fascinating.

  7. #182
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Religion is a political force. Christianity has been a huge political force for centuries. And only after WWII we were able to limit its power.
    I think the big change occurred in the 17th century. The Renaissance and Reformation kicked off over a hundred years of religious wars culminating with the Thirty Years' War and British Civil Wars. Since then, the political power of religion in the West has been significantly curtailed. That doesn't mean religion doesn't still have political power, but I don't see WWII as marking any significant change.

    Example: in the US 25%-30% of the population doesn't believe in any god. But in Congress, out of 535 members, there isn't a single atheist. That scares me.
    It doesn't mean much. Most non-religious voters don't care about the religious affiliation of their candidates, they only care if their politicians are making policy based on religious beliefs. So there are no votes to be gained by calling yourself an atheist. On the other hand, a lot of religious voters won't vote for an atheist.

    Most non-religious people in the US are religiously affiliated in some way but non-practicing. For example, a lot of people will say they are Catholic Jewish, Protestant or whatever because that's what their parents were, even if they never really practiced their religion and aren't sure whether they believe in God. Others were raised in an organized religion, abandoned it in adulthood, but still self-identify themselves with the religion they were raised in when filling out census forms and the like. And among the non-religious people who don't claim any religious affiliation, they are just as likely (if not more) to say they are non-religious or agnostic than associate themselves with atheism. Atheism seems to carry a stigma here because a lot of people who call themselves atheist are aggressively anti-religious and can be annoying company.

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