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Thread: Attack on London Bridge!

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea

    Attack on London Bridge!

    There has been an attack on London Bridge and Borough Square!...



    I wonder who is responsible for this madness?...
    Last edited by Vae; 3rd Jun 2017 at 20:18. Reason: video update

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    I wonder who is responsible for this madness?...
    The vast majority seem to have been on drugs at some point. Maybe they affect the brain in a way that makes some people highly suggestible.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Highly suggestible to a certain religious tenet...

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    It's gotten so bad now, that the Metropolitan Police have started a Public Safety Announcement campaign for the ongoing terrorist attacks...


  5. #5
    Vae, chill.

    This kind of thing is just "part of our daily lives for the years to come", in the words of Emmanuel Macron.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Stabbings? How quaint. I guess U.K.'s gun control is more effective than some people claim.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Statement on London Bridge and Borough Market terror attacks

    “Since late yesterday evening [Saturday, 3 June], the Metropolitan Police Service has been responding to incidents in the London Bridge and Borough Market areas of south London. We are treating this as a terrorist incident and a full investigation is already underway, led by the Met's Counter Terrorism Command."

    You will understand that our knowledge of the incident is still growing but what we understand at the present time is:

    - At 22:08hrs yesterday evening we began to receive reports that a vehicle had struck pedestrians on London Bridge.

    - The vehicle continued to drive from London Bridge to Borough Market.

    - The suspects then left the vehicle and a number of people were stabbed, including an on-duty British Transport Police officer who was responding to the incident at London Bridge. He received serious but not life-threatening injuries. His family has been informed.

    - Armed officers responded very quickly and bravely, confronting three male suspects who were shot and killed in Borough Market. The suspects had been confronted and shot by the police within eight minutes of the first call. The suspects were wearing what looked like explosive vests but these were later established to be hoaxes.

    “The ongoing operation is led by the Met, working closely with British Transport Police, City of London Police, the London Ambulance Service and the London Fire Brigade."

    “At this stage, we believe that six people have died in addition to the three attackers shot dead by police. And at least 20 casualties have been taken to six hospitals across London."


    ...So, at least six people killed, 30+ people hospitalized, by three terrorists who were shot dead by police.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    This kind of stuff is starting to occur so often, that you become numb to it after a while.

    We had the Ariana Grande concert bombing, this, the car thing near Big Ben earlier.

    Note I'm not saying that this isn't a horrible thing in the slightest. Just saying that you become numb to it all after a while, when it starts to occur so often.

  9. #9
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    You might.

    I'm betting these guys aren't connected to the Manchester but chose to go for it in response to that.

  10. #10
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Stabbings? How quaint. I guess U.K.'s gun control is more effective than some people claim.
    Yeah, a knife to the liver is quaint.

    Asshole.

    There is a total legend on BBC telling how he chased and threw things at the attackers.

    I predict a change in behaviour; people will start taking these guys on en masse and beating them, perhaps to death. Just like in Israel where civilians sometimes take on terrorists.
    Last edited by SubJeff; 4th Jun 2017 at 03:43.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    I hope all our London residents and their loved ones are okay.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Stabbings? How quaint. I guess U.K.'s gun control is more effective than some people claim.
    Think how much worse it might have been if that gun control wasn't in place.

    btw, "quaint" is not an appropriate word to use in tragic circumstances.
    Last edited by ffox; 4th Jun 2017 at 14:35.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    UPDATE: 7 people confirmed dead, 48+ hospitalized, and the three attackers shouted "this is for Allah", as they went after people with their long knives.

  14. #14
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Chicago, IL
    Nothing will change. Flowers, vigils, Facebook profile changes, rinse and repeat.

  16. #16
    Apparently the solution is that we need to clamp down on internet hate speech.

    Great point, since anti-immigrant policies and sentiment are what causes terror. That's why Poland and Hungary have more terror attacks than all other European countries combined.

    Think much worse it might have been if that gun control wasn't in place.

    btw, "quaint" is not an appropriate word to use in tragic circumstances.
    Ever heard of this thing called a "bomb"?

    I predict a change in behaviour; people will start taking these guys on en masse and beating them, perhaps to death. Just like in Israel where civilians sometimes take on terrorists.
    The problem with that is that most people aren't smart enough or (even if they are that smart) rational enough to distinguish between the different types of "these guys". Hell even most of the people here are so massively ignorant on the topic that they think I'm crazy when I try to explain how the reality tribal/sectarian nature of most Islamic countries doesn't bear much relationship to the view Westerners have of all "Muslims" and "Refugees" being one homogeneous group.

    If that happens both the guys who have been in Europe for decades and integrated into the culture, as well as the legitimate refugees, will be lumped in with the nutjobs and subjected to violence.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 4th Jun 2017 at 14:48.

  17. #17
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Krush View Post
    Nothing will change. . . .
    I may well regret this post. I'm probably more or less twice the age of most posters here. As a baby, we didn't leave the city where I was born without travelling in convoy and with my mother holding a loaded gun in her lap. There have been quite a few similar times so no, I think there will always be terror of one sort or another, whether it's carried out by people like IS or governments like the UK and the US and undoubtedly many others.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    She may have a point, since anti-immigrant policies and sentiment are what causes terror.
    I never thought I'd agree with you about anything. But you might be not saying what I think you are.

    I thought May might have been quite good but now I think she's a complete dipstick although we do already have laws about hate speech and that includes the internet.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    Tony, I think she meant battling radical Islamic propaganda online, and she actually had far more to say than just that. I think Labour might be taking a hit in the upcoming elections, because Corbyn is considered weak on combating terrorism.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post

    I never thought I'd agree with you about anything. But you might be not saying what I think you are.
    Wait, you thought I was serious?

    The statistic I put out was complete bullshit and you fell right for it because it fit your confirmation bias.

    This is the real map of big terror attacks in Poland:




    Here's my question: if "anti immigrant" policies are the real cause of terror, then can you explain why Poland has been largely free of terror attacks while other European nations are suffering multiple mass-casualty attacks every year?

    edit: and let me take that a step further. By that logic, isn't the way to defeat white supremacists to be kind and understanding towards them?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harvester View Post
    Tony, I think she meant battling radical Islamic propaganda online, and she actually had far more to say than just that. I think Labour might be taking a hit in the upcoming elections, because Corbyn is considered weak on combating terrorism.
    Jumped the gun on it, still stupid. Censorship doesn't really work.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Here's my question: if "anti immigrant" policies are the real cause of terror, then can you explain why Poland has been largely free of terror attacks while other European nations are suffering multiple mass-casualty attacks every year?

    edit: and let me take that a step further. By that logic, isn't the way to defeat white supremacists to be kind and understanding towards them?
    Here's a question. What do you think anti-immigrant policies will accomplish? Do you think it's worth giving up Western values like religious freedom and human rights to achieve that? Can you explain why Norway has been largely free of Islamic terror attacks even though they lack anti-immigrant policies.

    Now let me take it even a step further. Do you think nationalism should be banned because of the extremists who go and kill people?
    Last edited by Starker; 4th Jun 2017 at 16:18.

  21. #21
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Wait, you thought I was serious?
    Yes I did. I thought you might have seen the light. As some people here know, I have an incredibly annoying habit of trying to think the best of people. But don't worry, I won't make the same mistake of not fully reading your posts again. Still, I didn't see a statistic and you appear to have edited your post anyway.

  22. #22
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    The statistic I put out was complete bullshit and you fell right for it because it fit your confirmation bias.
    I have no idea how someone can manage to be so sanctimonious and stupid at the same time.

    Has it ever occurred to you, Tony, that you yourself are falling victim to the very things you happily point out in others? I mean here you are, constantly using the tiniest coincidences and most incidental points of data to verify your worldview, then, when someone points this fact out to you, offering up evidence to counter the sweeping accusations you make using the smallest amount of evidence, you end up doing shit like what you've done above, accusing us of being bounded rationally instead of addressing the points handed to you.

    I mean goddamn it's obnoxious. Not that you'll ever realize it as such. You'll just claim it's us squirming about under the harsh light of the truths you've put on display, unable to come to terms with our cognitive dissonances or what the fuck ever.

  23. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Here's a question. What do you think anti-immigrant policies will accomplish? Do you think it's worth giving up Western values like religious freedom and human rights to achieve that? Can you explain why Norway has been largely free of Islamic terror attacks even though they lack anti-immigrant policies.

    Now let me take it even a step further. Do you think nationalism should be banned because of the extremists who go and kill people?
    Strawman argument. I have yet to advocate banning immigration. Please react to what is actually said rather than this Alex Jones caricature you have in your head.

    As mentioned before, I have even written letters of recommendation to help people get into the United States as refugees because I worked with those people and hold a high opinion of their character.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    Yes I did. I thought you might have seen the light. As some people here know, I have an incredibly annoying habit of trying to think the best of people. But don't worry, I won't make the same mistake of not fully reading your posts again. Still, I didn't see a statistic and you appear to have edited your post anyway.
    The original statement I made was that "Poland has more terror attacks than the rest of Europe combined". That was not edited and is still on my first post. Why is it that you believe that the primary cause of terrorism is anti-immigrant policies and internet hate speech?

    Also note the implication that anyone who disagrees with your assessment is a bad person. Great illustration of why I believe 2017 era "progressives" aren't any different from the people who were warning us in the 1980's that you were going to go to hell if you played Dungeons and Dragons

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    I have no idea how someone can manage to be so sanctimonious and stupid at the same time.

    Has it ever occurred to you, Tony, that you yourself are falling victim to the very things you happily point out in others? I mean here you are, constantly using the tiniest coincidences and most incidental points of data to verify your worldview, then, when someone points this fact out to you, offering up evidence to counter the sweeping accusations you make using the smallest amount of evidence, you end up doing shit like what you've done above, accusing us of being bounded rationally instead of addressing the points handed to you.

    I mean goddamn it's obnoxious. Not that you'll ever realize it as such. You'll just claim it's us squirming about under the harsh light of the truths you've put on display, unable to come to terms with our cognitive dissonances or what the fuck ever.
    It's not a "tiniest coincidence". If we accept the hypothesis that terrorism is caused by policies that make immigration difficult, then it would logically follow that places like Poland, Japan, and New Zealand all would have massive terrorism problems.

    That is not the case. It turns out that the only developed European/American countries to have zero scores on the Global Terrorism are ones that are known for hardline immigration policies. Most of the rest are either ethnically homogenous Asian cultures or totalitarian regimes.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Terrorism_Index

    What effect do immigration policies have on terrorism? Very little as it turns out. That's not "one coincidental" thing...it's data that covers the entire freaking world.



    Here's my challenge. If I'm that stupid, you're very welcome to actually show some studies that prove that terrorism is caused primarily by anti-immigration policy.

    Of course you won't do that. You'll call me a lot of names and use the word "fuck" a lot.

    Think about it....I'd PREFER if you can prove your point, but if you want to think about why terrorism exists, it isn't "immigration policy" or mean words on Twitter. Philosophical question: what's the difference between Obama bombing weddings with a drone, and some Syrian twerp bombing a concert with a suicide vest? What I'm thinking of has absolutely nothing to do with ideology, right and wrong, or anything of the sort.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 4th Jun 2017 at 18:51.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony_Tarantula View Post
    Strawman argument. I have yet to advocate banning immigration. Please react to what is actually said rather than this Alex Jones caricature you have in your head.
    Why don't you make it clear to the class what your position actually IS, so we can all get this Alex Jones caricature out of our head? All the pointed (and ultimately pointless) questions you're asking lead us toward that picture of what it is you believe.

    Lay it out for us. What position do you hold on our immigration policies, and how would you change them if you could?

  25. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Trance View Post
    Why don't you make it clear to the class what your position actually IS, so we can all get this Alex Jones caricature out of our head? All the pointed (and ultimately pointless) questions you're asking lead us toward that picture of what it is you believe.

    Lay it out for us. What position do you hold on our immigration policies, and how would you change them if you could?
    How about something a bit more reasonable than either side's nutjobs? Fully open borders is stupid, and banning all travel with a black and white rule is stupid.

    I've also stated that multiple times before. None of you all cared to notice because for some reason, any criticism or displeasure with no questions asked, completely unregulated open borders makes you a raging white supremacist or something.

    The other point you make is answered as follows: attacking one stupid idea does not necessarily imply endorsement of the equally opposite extreme position.

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