TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Key on AI disappears

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas

    Key on AI disappears

    I didn't see anything relating to this issue in a search so I'm posting this for future reference.

    I have a haunt in my mission with Transparency (Alpha) set to 0.4. Recently I added a key to the haunt by using the Contains link, and I specified the belt as the location. When I went into game mode the key would disappear and I was unable to frob it. After doing some trials and testing I found that the key has to have the Transparency (Alpha) parameter as well, and the value has to be something other than 1.00. I would probably use something like 0.99 because the key is rather hard to see when both the haunt and the key have a low Transparency (Alpha) value.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    You are correct. I discovered that earlier this year myself.

  3. #3
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    I encountered this in my mission
    I set the key to
    Renderer--Has Refs:true
    Renderer Type: Unlit
    No Transparency Alpha setting
    Well, that's a bright key on a ghost

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    I tried to set Has Refs to True but then I got tons of "will be rendered twice" errors. I guess its no big deal though.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    All you have to do is pre-opaque the haunt, under render, then render order

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Just put any explicit transparency value on the concrete key. How hard is that? When you mess about with render order you are setting yourself up for all sorts (pun intended) of rendering errors. You should only do that as a last resort, which this isn't.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    Just put any explicit transparency value on the concrete key. How hard is that? When you mess about with render order you are setting yourself up for all sorts (pun intended) of rendering errors. You should only do that as a last resort, which this isn't.
    It isn't hard at all, but I was just poking around out of interest, this wasn't even my post. If it were me I'd like to keep things native to the haunt no matter what he carries. I don't like the idea of any transparency added to the key as a matter of principal. I'm still a noob at this stuff though, what sort of errors are caused by re-ordering render?

  8. #8
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    The haunt could start having rendering issues when behind trees or windows, or other similar objects which have some transparent parts. No experience here, just speculation.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Still works...


    Also did a solid brush, it blocked it right. I don't see an issue but I guess I will do this in my own mission and see if matters.
    Last edited by gamophyte; 7th Jul 2017 at 17:00.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Generally speaking, you get into more trouble than you get out of with tweaking render order. Only use this approach if there is nothing else which will serve. And if you decide you have to do it, do it only on non-movable objects where you can investigate and verify that everything looks right from all angles. If you put on things that can wander about, you are just begging for something to go wrong.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Portland, OR
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    If you put on things that can wander about, you are just begging for something to go wrong.
    I'm sorry I'm really not trying to be cute, but what do you even mean. What exactly can go wrong? BSoD? From what I read in the mod notes it sounded pretty straight forward okay-to-use newdark setting. Nothing bad in mono.

    Edit: I did see that the key gets hidden behind the haunt.
    Edit2: Ah no z-write flag fixed that.
    Last edited by gamophyte; 7th Jul 2017 at 17:42.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Nothing will blow up your PC or is likely to cause DromEd or Thief to crash, if that's what you mean. But render order determines what gets seen when things are behind other things. When you mess with that parameter you are likely to create worse rendering errors than what you are attempting to fix. If there is a solution to fix your rendering issue which does not involve touching this parameter, it is much safer to use that. Only use Render Order when you have exhausted all other possible fixes. You will save yourself a world of debugging to make sure that you didn't break rendering elsewhere. That's all. Do what you want. You have been warned.

  13. #13
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    experience here - I tried to use render order to fix up the trams of brokenness in SS2, and had to give up for the tram on the Command deck, as there was just no way of setting things up with objects/decals/AIs not having rendering issues (disappearing, or being rendered in front of stuff when they were supposed to be behind stuff and vice versa) from certain angles and positions (basically, setting things up to look properly from inside the tram means they will be completely broken when looking from outside the tram). it did however work properly for the Earth tram, as there are no objects the player can drop, no random AIs, and all positions of objects are static and permanent, so one is able to account for all the situations and set things up accordingly.

    to make it short, let it be known that using render order to fix things is fighting evil with more evil *insert ominous music here*, and you need to be very, very sure that you are completely out of other options and that all the objects affected can be kept under enough control to prevent bad stuff from happening.

    so to sum it up, DON'T FRIGGIN' DO IT.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by gamophyte View Post
    It isn't hard at all, but I was just poking around out of interest, this wasn't even my post. If it were me I'd like to keep things native to the haunt no matter what he carries. I don't like the idea of any transparency added to the key as a matter of principal. I'm still a noob at this stuff though, what sort of errors are caused by re-ordering render?
    That's why I specified 0.99 as the Transparency value. It's not perceivable in game but 1.00 doesn't work.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •