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Thread: Status update

  1. #126
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Well you can use my cynical hat to inform you at least - my ex probably has a genuine personality disorder, and it wasn't just depression. You can keep sacrificing and it's never enough and there's nothing of you left. Sometimes it's better to stand ground than go along with things. There are certainly times I wished I'd done that.

  2. #127
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    There seems to be a strong belief that kids always make things better, but in real life if there are major problems to begin with, having children most often makes things worse. Babies are not magical beings that can cure whatever their parents are suffering from, they are tiny people who can't do anything for themselves and thus need big people to tend to their every need, material and emotional. I know I'm seen as a very anti-kids person here, but I truly think about the children – I know people who have grown up with parents who have psychological issues, and it can take a lifetime to heal from that.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Vasquez View Post
    There seems to be a strong belief that kids always make things better...
    Who the eff believes that? Have they ever met a kid? Kids make things a whole lot harder. Kids are a ton of work, expensive, and frequently infuriating. They test the strength of a marriage, not reinforce it. I can't imagine any of my previous relationships surviving the stresses of parenting.

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    For me, I look on kids more from a logical standpoint as the way of continuing on the family bloodline.

    Many of my friends (on the female end and none of my male friends) had the big desire to have kids. For me though, my big desire had always been about getting in to the games industry, and now on getting good at teaching games dev. In other people I've noticed that once they had kids, that their pursuit of life dreams/goals went on the back burner from then on which is a shame. Obviously this isn't always the case, but is on a larger percentage. Note that I'm not relying on any stats for that, just going from observations throughout my lifetime so far.

    Up until getting together with my fiance I'd always had more of a solo view on life, with the pursuit of dreams/goals and just living life to the fullest. Though I've always been more of a lone wolf sort. I'm not sure if that's due to being bullied in my high school years (which generally turns people into more inward / solo type people, if they survive the experience), but that's been me for a long time. Once I hit my 20s (I'm now 37) I didn't have too much trouble getting girlfriends, which was good. But beyond that it never really factored in. The fiance changed that side of it. First person I've been with that I've not had the big craving for alone time (as in, having time to myself for a bit) after days of spending time together. For me that was what decided it to me on her + she's fun to be around. That said, our way of alone time (beyond the obvious) is just hanging out in the same room but doing our own thing. Wouldn't work for most people, but it works in our case.

  5. #130
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Who the eff believes that?
    Seemingly a lot of people, looking at everyday life. The kid saves a failing relationship (mostly doesn't), it magically cures depression or somesuch (more likely makes it worse) etc. But I guess it's true that if people weren't that self-delusional, human race would've died of extinction a long ago.

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    So, your logic is, lots of people have kids, therefore they must believe that kids save failing relationships and mental health? Nah. I mean, some people believe such things, but some people believe the Earth is flat. At best, there's something to be said for having had kids, like 25+ years ago. (And then we dump grandkids on you, lol.)

  7. #132
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Blah you. I didn't mean that, but I've met many, many people who are appallingly clueless that having and raising children is very hard work on everyday level, some couples therapist has called the first baby "a hand grenade thrown into a marriage", and it can seriously drain the parents even when things are otherwise okay. Of course it can be also very rewarding, if you really wanted to have them.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    The major downside being if one of the kids has severe autism or disability. That is often the slow death of many marriages, due to the 24/7 commitment required to take care of them vs more "normal" type kids.

  9. #134
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Maybe Vas and I were both reacting to the implied "planning to have kids when you're in a bad mental state" implication.

    I have direct experience of the situation where I went along with kids because my partner was talking about "filling a gap". I was not aware enough myself at the time to see this as a bad thing. It was actually one of a long line of compromises where I was hoping she would somehow pull things together. Nothing works unless the root problem is dealt with - underlying mental health issues.

    As far as I can tell from what you've said icemann, your relationship probably has a stronger basis than mine. It would just suck to have it go bad from kids coming in at the wrong time.

    The more I think about it, my experience has probably been quite negative, and I haven't had anything like a sensible relationship, certainly not an emotionally healthy one. I sacrificed too much because I thought that was what I was supposed to do, and rarely talked to anyone else about what was going on. Partly autism and partly my "partner" (you see I can barely stand to refer to her as an ex-spose) convincing me that I wasn't allowed to talk about stuff without checking with her first...

    The list goes on, and it would probably get a bit boring if I went on. I suppose the main point is that I had a fucked up idea of what a relationship was supposed to be, and my will was pretty weak, so I'm not a typical example. I guess a good example of how bad it is to go into what you think is a "relationship" when you aren't in a good place.

    So enough of that, I'm pretty bored of going over it in my own head. I'm getting to the point where I can accept that being autistic and having kids to support means letting go ideas of having some sort of relationship. My attempt at having a typical marriage and family went wrong and I just have to carry on from here.

    I sometimes feel like part of me is picking up from where I was at 20, while the 40 year old me is trying to do the adult things related to caring for children.

  10. #135
    Kids and mental illness are a TERRIBLE combination, and I do think that kid in general make life harder.

    Kids can have a positive side, but that' contingent on having the kind of personality where you rise to the challenge and improve your own life in the process. I've seen it happen a few times where people realize that they don't want a kid to suffer from their slacking off and get their shit together surprisingly well, others don't. It's just an aspect of character that you won't know beforehand if you possess or not.

  11. #136
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by scumble View Post
    The more I think about it, my experience has probably been quite negative, and I haven't had anything like a sensible relationship, certainly not an emotionally healthy one. I sacrificed too much because I thought that was what I was supposed to do, and rarely talked to anyone else about what was going on. Partly autism and partly my "partner" (you see I can barely stand to refer to her as an ex-spose) convincing me that I wasn't allowed to talk about stuff without checking with her first...
    Firstly the plan for kids is in like 2 years. We are NOT EVEN CLOSE financially to be able to afford another person living with us. Hell, even just supporting ourselves is going to be really hard when work dries up in a month. I don't think she's trying to fill a void. She's wanted kids at some point in the future ever since I first met her, long before the mental issues comes along. That said I'm not expert on mental stuff. I've had past ex's with mental issues (anxiety, depression, agoraphobia, the works), and helped those ones through those. And I've experienced depression and anxiety myself. In my case though, I just pushed it to the back of my mind and did my best to blank it out like white noise + treated it like the bullies back in my high school days. They may try to beat you down, but you never let them win. That's my inner fire. But yeah, my personal experience is only that.

    I will say though, that one of those ex's (the agoraphobia one), had kids (not from me). And I've seen firsthand the nightmare that can go on. Then you have government agencies taking the kids away, the kids then going on to get messed up mentally from the experience etc etc. Goes round and round.

    I'm not sure if I mentioned it earlier, but when she (my fiance) had the breakdown, she called me a few days prior. I was getting ready for work (in tech support at the time). She said to me that either I dropped everything (as in quit my job) or she'd not be there when I got home from work. As in, off herself. I had no choice in the situation so quit my job. At the time I was saving up for the mortgage. She was the reason I was even working to get the mortgage, so wasn't exactly a situation where you have much degree for choice. 2 days later she had the breakdown. I went in every day for about 6 hours to try and help her through it. Her sister setup a roster of sorts, for a different person to see her each day not long after. It's so mentally draining. I just recall being so tired. Seeing the person you love most, talking complete crazy talk for hours on end, and trying to find ways to snap them out of it for even a moment. I do not miss those days. Not one bit.

    But she fought to get herself back together mentally. Most people (according to the internet) take 6 months - 2 years to find themselves again. She was back in a bit over a month. Was quite proud of her. She'll never be the person she was prior to it all again, but you make do, and deal with the dice rolls that life throws at you. Her being a Somali Muslim and me being a white Aussie catholic, it wasn't until the middle of all that I met her parents for the first time (we'd been together for about 5 or 6 years by that point I think). That had played into it all partially. The fear of the parents reaction. Us preparing to announce the relationship to them. Her fear of her parents reaction to me + me refusing to convert (I'm not religious AT ALL, but at the same time I feel the right to be myself and never have to change just to fit inside someone else's square, so to speak).

    And I meant to type a sentence, and yet I've typed a page again. Grrr.

    ANYWAYS. What I was replying to say was that she reacts exactly the same as your ex, in that she HATES IT when I tell my family about anything personal to do with her. She wants to keep everything all private. Her family and mine are VERY different on this aspect. In hers none of her siblings tell the others of major stuff going on in their lives. Just what's needed. Compare that to my family, where we tell each other everything. Family is what gets you through the dark times. I've been through my own years ago (long story which I'll likely never go into as I never tell anyone new about it), and family is what got me through that. Not my friends. Family. So you keep them in the loop and they support you, then vice versa etc etc. That's family to me. The fiance though. Man she COMPLETELY LOSES the plot whenever she finds out about me telling stuff. I keep on doing it anyway. But that's how it is.
    Last edited by icemann; 7th Oct 2017 at 11:48.

  12. #137
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Family is what gets you through the dark times.
    Or shoves you there. And now I'm speaking from personal experience.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Too true. I've had friends with quite bad families. I first hand was witness to a large fist fight between my former best friend and his father. Things have never gone down like that in my family.

  14. #139
    El Shagmeister
    Registered: Jul 2000
    Location: Under your fingernails.
    A child is not a solution, but an (optional) extension of a good relationship.*












    *Said the childless duck.

  15. #140
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    (I'm not religious AT ALL, but at the same time I feel the right to be myself and never have to change just to fit inside someone else's square, so to speak).
    An afterthought – changing your religion, especially since you're not religious, would be 1000x less fundamental change in your life than having a kid only/mostly because she wants them. Just curious, why do you yield on the huge thing but not the small thing?

  16. #141
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Changing religion is the small thing? Only an agnostic person could say that.

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    Changing religion is the small thing? Only an agnostic person could say that.
    Icemann did say he's not religious "AT ALL". I would hope that even a severely religious person could understand that changing from not practicing one religion to not practicing a different religion might be seen as not that big a deal.

  18. #143
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    My extent of being religious is that I occasionally pray for good fortune, and that when the time comes I'll go to a good place and not to just empty nothingness.

    It just never felt right to me to have to change for someone else (of that sort of change). To an outsider and to her it may appear to be a minor change, to me it's important.

  19. #144
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Well I rather meant that do you really see having kids a minor change that you can do for the other's sake, even though it's meh and nowhere on your priorities list etc, and even though it will change your life radically? No more quiet togetherness, you know.
    I'm not saying you can't or you shouldn't, and in the end the reason is, of course, "because I feel like it". I'm just really curious how people rationalise these things to themselves

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I never really looked at it that way. lol.

    I guess I look at it, that kids were always going to be part of the equation at some point whether I'm a fan of it or not.

  21. #146
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    ANYWAYS. What I was replying to say was that she reacts exactly the same as your ex, in that she HATES IT when I tell my family about anything personal to do with her. She wants to keep everything all private.
    Well keep resisting that - I wish I had because it might have polarised things earlier. Maybe it's more a cultural difference in your case. I guess it hasn't been enough for you to fall out completely. Your situation still makes me feel uneasy, but you seem to have more of a handle on what's going on than I did. I hope things continue OK, you're right that trying to have kids in 2 years is unrealistic given the finances.

    I suppose philosophically at this point in my life I don't think anyone should consider kids as a given or an assumption. There's nothing inevitable about the marriage -> have kids -> raise family formula. Humans seem to keep doing it though. More than enough of us already...

  22. #147
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Icemann did say he's not religious "AT ALL". I would hope that even a severely religious person could understand that changing from not practicing one religion to not practicing a different religion might be seen as not that big a deal.
    Maybe I read more into his situation than is there, but I assumed that if his fiancé and her parents want him to convert to Islam, they're expecting him to do more than just call himself a Muslim and not practice any of it.

    I think if somebody wants you to convert to 'X', usually they want you to do more than just say you're 'X', because if religious practice wasn't important to them why would they even ask? And even if there was no expectation that you'd practice your new religion, would you feel comfortable telling people you've converted to this new religion, basically lying to them and pretending to believe when you really don't? I couldn't do that.

  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Maybe! And maybe not. My own father-in-law wanted a Muslim wedding for his daughter and didn't seem to give a fig about whether or not I actually believed any of it. I don't think the Imam was fooled in the slightest, but any chance to preach, I guess.

    But then there's the flip side. To butcher Philip K. Dick, children and the awesome responsibilities of raising them don't go away when you stop believing in them.
    Last edited by Pyrian; 9th Oct 2017 at 20:18.

  24. #149
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    This morning Windows 10 forced an update on me and locked up my computer for an hour when I needed to work on it.
    So I was already pissed about that.

    Now that it's over, whenever I move any icon on the desktop, the other icons move from their place, and sometimes the icon I'm moving moves itself to another place, along with the other icons. So it's impossible to line any icons up anywhere.

    Are you shitting me?
    Are you literally fucking shitting me?
    Windows 3 handled that shit and you, stupid Win10 update, can't.
    It's like the most basic primitive feature a desktop OS needs to handle.

    Edit: And a window's/Word's top bar color pops in and out as you click on menu items and move windows around. Hahaha, what? Good gobkins what a shit release. These are the kinds of bugs you see in newbie Unity weekend projects. (Not to mention it's ugly.) I'll add in more LOLWTF moments as they come.
    Last edited by demagogue; 10th Oct 2017 at 00:08.

  25. #150
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by scumble View Post
    Well keep resisting that - I wish I had because it might have polarised things earlier. Maybe it's more a cultural difference in your case. I guess it hasn't been enough for you to fall out completely. Your situation still makes me feel uneasy, but you seem to have more of a handle on what's going on than I did. I hope things continue OK, you're right that trying to have kids in 2 years is unrealistic given the finances.
    I'm just a very stubborn person . My last relationship before the current one was a very abusive style one. As in verbally, as we would fight almost 24/7. In the case of that one, the girlfriend was very controlling and super clingy. So she'd want to talk on the phone 4 hours a day every day on a set roster (crazy I know), and she'd try and push me into ditching friends that she did not like. It never worked as I never gave her an inch on that (plus I'm a strong believer that no'one but you, has the right to choose your friends), so we'd argue all the time. Sex was great which was the only reason I stuck around for so long. Of which long = a on again, off again relationship of over 5 years. I didn't like the person that she was turning me into, + she ended up cheating so that was it with that one.

    You be with someone who brings out the best in you, not the worst. Plus she was nothing but negative energy. Life is MUCH better when you surround yourself with positive people.

    So after that abusive relationship it made me all the more stubborn in relationships from then on. Has it's benefits and negatives.

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