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Thread: Doctor Whoessa: Time Lady

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    You see icemann, when you got Vae to agree with you and pulling his retarded troll card for your cause, you're on the wrong fucking boat. It's just a fucking TV show that's pretty boring to begin with.
    They're replacing the male lead with a woman. Maybe they do it to appeal to some teens, maybe just to jazz things up a bit, it doesn't matter.
    What does matter is that you just became part of a very vocal group of troglodytes who feel threatened and insulted when a female meddles with their toys and will lash out against that woman in the worst possible way.
    And don't tell me you're not part of them. Because when you're in a demo of asshats and don't get out asap and loudly pronounce your differing opinion then you're a part of that shitpool and deserve to be treated like them.
    Fuck, I'm tired of you manchildren wailing like babies whenever a woman comes near. You came out of a pussy and while you may never get close to another, that should be enough to show some respect.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    You see icemann, when you got Vae to agree with you and pulling his retarded troll card for your cause, you're on the wrong fucking boat. It's just a fucking TV show that's pretty boring to begin with.
    They're replacing the male lead with a woman. Maybe they do it to appeal to some teens, maybe just to jazz things up a bit, it doesn't matter.
    What does matter is that you just became part of a very vocal group of troglodytes who feel threatened and insulted when a female meddles with their toys and will lash out against that woman in the worst possible way.
    And don't tell me you're not part of them. Because when you're in a demo of asshats and don't get out asap and loudly pronounce your differing opinion then you're a part of that shitpool and deserve to be treated like them.
    Fuck, I'm tired of you manchildren wailing like babies whenever a woman comes near. You came out of a pussy and while you may never get close to another, that should be enough to show some respect.
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    ...and then it'll be Gandalf gone Trans, with Bilbo and Sam as lesbian adventure buddies!

    I'd have the same problem with Lara Croft becoming Larry Croft.

    If you want to bring in more women, blacks, or gays, create a new IP instead of corrupting the classic universes.
    I must say, Kolya, you really need to work on your reading comprehension skills. Otherwise it makes you look like a fucking asshole for superimposing a false motive on those you wish to attack.


    @icemann

    Don't let this guy attempt to guilt you on something you're not guilty of...His bullying attempt only reveals his own prejudice.
    Last edited by Vae; 17th Jul 2017 at 19:36.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    In other words women on tv are a slippery slope to you. You cannot give in an inch because who knows what toy of yours they'll want to play with next.
    And you believe the fact that you like to watch Lara Croft's polygon tits wobbling across your screen proves that you are an objective judge on gender in the media.

    You are judging this Doctor purely on the fact that she's a woman. Go watch the show.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I am for one have been watching the show since I was a kid in the 80s, growing up with Tom Baker and later rewatched the show in it's entirety (1950s - present day). I've watched and know the show quite well.

    The recent gender stuff is pure retcon stuff. That's my issue. If The Doctor had been female from the get go and only now was being switched to a male, I'd have the same issue, and/or if the show had always featured gender swapping I'd not have an issue in the world with it. But it never has.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    Fuck, I'm tired of you manchildren wailing like babies whenever a woman comes near. You came out of a pussy and while you may never get close to another, that should be enough to show some respect.
    To resort to personal insults like this is beneath you. Your better than that mate. I'm all for debating differences of opinion, but I never see the point of personally insulting others just because they don't agree with our point of view. I think too many of us nowadays are surrounded by others (both in reality and online) who mainly agree with our point of view. So whenever someone comes along that does not meet that status quo, then ZOMG DEATH TO THE HERETIC.



    So your better than that. Keep it civil.

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    That space marine could be a woman, you know

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    Yeah that was quite a toxic way to kick off page 3. About as vile and reprehensible as mysogyny. Lesson here, avoid both of these opposing pitfalls.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    To resort to personal insults like this is beneath you. Your better than that mate. I'm all for debating differences of opinion, but I never see the point of personally insulting others just because they don't agree with our point of view. I think too many of us nowadays are surrounded by others (both in reality and online) who mainly agree with our point of view. So whenever someone comes along that does not meet that status quo, then ZOMG DEATH TO THE HERETIC.
    I didn't mean to insult you personally. However your viewpoint is based solely on her gender and you make it before the season has aired. That's clear gender prejudice. It does not qualify as an opinion. So we have no difference of opinions that could be discussed in a fair and reasonable manner. You cannot step out of the circle of decent human behaviour and yet demand it from others.
    If you watch the show and find that she does a shitty job as a Doctor or her origin isn't explained adequately compared to many other changes the show has seen over time, then we can discuss opinions.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    I have no dog in this race; don't watch the show with regularity because it's not my kind of sci-fi.

    I just wanted to mention that this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    [. . .] Your viewpoint is based solely on her gender and you make it before the season has aired. That's clear gender prejudice. It does not qualify as an opinion.
    ...ignores context entirely. His viewpoint is about their decision to change The Doctor's gender while a global row on gender politics is going on. The optics of the situation, even to me, are that this decision has a political foundation rather than a purely artistic one. That's what he has a problem with, not the woman herself.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    I'm pretty sure the opinion is not about gender (jesus who here doesn't love a strong female lead role), but regarding the writers retconning and making fictional and stylistic changes to the show due to today's climate. On the other hand you're trying to shut down anyone who might notice the difference between a man and a woman. It's.. a bit nuts.

    I mean I'm open to this change, but I can also bloody notice it's a change. Is that ok? Can I pass with that?

    Edit: also the irony of how disturbingly sexist "You came out of a pussy and while you may never get close to another" is
    Last edited by Abysmal; 18th Jul 2017 at 08:09.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    The gender politics of the 60's meant that The Doctor absolutely had to be a white man. That restriction remained in place much longer than it had any business remaining in place. Claiming that modern gender politics are forcing this change is disingenuous at best - it was gender politics that made it the way it was in the first palce.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    So, the issue is that they've changed aspects of the show to make it appeal to modern audiences. Which they've done shitloads of already. But this is different because its actually about ethics in timelord regeneration or some other bollocks, yeah whatever

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    You see icemann, when you got Vae to agree with you and pulling his retarded troll card for your cause, you're on the wrong fucking boat. It's just a fucking TV show that's pretty boring to begin with.
    They're replacing the male lead with a woman. Maybe they do it to appeal to some teens, maybe just to jazz things up a bit, it doesn't matter.
    What does matter is that you just became part of a very vocal group of troglodytes who feel threatened and insulted when a female meddles with their toys and will lash out against that woman in the worst possible way.
    And don't tell me you're not part of them. Because when you're in a demo of asshats and don't get out asap and loudly pronounce your differing opinion then you're a part of that shitpool and deserve to be treated like them.
    Fuck, I'm tired of you manchildren wailing like babies whenever a woman comes near. You came out of a pussy and while you may never get close to another, that should be enough to show some respect.
    You're being an asshole Kolya. People ought to be able to express an opinion about whether gender is important to the character or not based on historical or artistic reasons without being called a troglodyte, asshat, shitpool, manchild, etc. Your post is a shining example of the ad hominem attacks that create a backlash against "social justice warriors".

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Trance View Post
    His viewpoint is about their decision to change The Doctor's gender while a global row on gender politics is going on. The optics of the situation, even to me, are that this decision has a political foundation rather than a purely artistic one. That's what he has a problem with, not the woman herself.
    Your opinion that a "global row on gender politics is going on" is slanted to begin with. Others might simply describe it as a change towards equality.
    You call that change "political" to distance yourself from it and devaluate it, which is a problem for itself because politics are a representation of society and you cannot distance yourself from it because you are part of society. But it's also just factually wrong. Did any politician demand Doctor Who to become a woman?
    The move towards equality is actually a societal change. And a TV show that wants to stay relevant would be well advised to pick up on such societal changes. Otherwise we would still have the TV shows of the 50s.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    You're being an asshole Kolya. People ought to be able to express an opinion
    If you don't like my reaction to your "opinions", get better opinions.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    You didn't even try to respond to or rebutt any of his points, you just suddenly threw a bunch of ad hominem insults at him.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    also can we stop saying "retconned" because jesus christ that is really irritating me.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    I assume by "his points" you mean icemann's. Let's look at those points.

    1. "It's a retcon" - We already know that the show has had multiple retcons for various reasons. And why not.
    2. "I'm all for women's lib and all that, but the Doctor is male. Always has, always should be." - An appeal to the status quo while forgetting that previous changes and retcons are also part of the status quo, in other words this is cherry picking.
    3. "Have it be a completely new Timelord with her own unique back story." - That's a preference, not an argument.

    I understand that none of you thinks of themselves as misogynists, but the truth is that sometimes the preferences you've come to hold dear from childhood to now are based on misogyny of others in the past, eg why heroes of films and tv shows historically have been white males. You truly seem to believe that this was an "artistic choice" ignoring proven historical chauvinism, meanwhile hiring a woman rings to you as a "political" agenda.
    There's a willful naivete in that which isn't innocent at all.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    That's a preference
    Bingo!

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Have you also read what I said about this kind of preferences?

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    Yes, and it was also complained about that the character was a male 12 times in a row. But nobody seems to be outraged that Dr. #3 was male. Steeped in past chauvinism or not, the tone of the character (and yes gender can denote tone) has been pretty set in stone.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    It's a show that's been running since the 1960s. If its tone was set in stone it would still look like it did back then, eg it would be black/white. Since it obviously does not, you seem to be taking special exception to this particular change. Isn't that so?

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    Sorry should have used the word identity. I prefer my characters to keep their original identity. I was happy when Craig's Bond got closer to the books. It's not as big of a deal here since in this show the character transforms every iteration. But it's still enough of an obvious tonal shift (not to mention fictional leap) to cause split opinions like this, unrelated to chauvinism.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Chicago, IL
    A female doctor eh? So in a year she'll go on maternity leave and then only work part time during office hours.

    How will the universe survive?

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    You could hire two of them, but they'll just sync their periods and pregnancies. :/

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    It's a show that's been running since the 1960s. If its tone was set in stone it would still look like it did back then, eg it would be black/white. Since it obviously does not, you seem to be taking special exception to this particular change. Isn't that so?
    If you take a long look through the "What have you watched lately?" thread I covered this + opinions on the changes that occurred from Doctor to Doctor in extensive detail as part of my earlier watch through of the entire series. Happy reading . I did QUITE a few posts on it as I proceeded through it.

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