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Thread: Doctor Whoessa: Time Lady

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    To resort to personal insults like this is beneath you. Your better than that mate. I'm all for debating differences of opinion, but I never see the point of personally insulting others just because they don't agree with our point of view. I think too many of us nowadays are surrounded by others (both in reality and online) who mainly agree with our point of view. So whenever someone comes along that does not meet that status quo, then ZOMG DEATH TO THE HERETIC.
    I didn't mean to insult you personally. However your viewpoint is based solely on her gender and you make it before the season has aired. That's clear gender prejudice. It does not qualify as an opinion. So we have no difference of opinions that could be discussed in a fair and reasonable manner. You cannot step out of the circle of decent human behaviour and yet demand it from others.
    If you watch the show and find that she does a shitty job as a Doctor or her origin isn't explained adequately compared to many other changes the show has seen over time, then we can discuss opinions.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    I have no dog in this race; don't watch the show with regularity because it's not my kind of sci-fi.

    I just wanted to mention that this:

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    [. . .] Your viewpoint is based solely on her gender and you make it before the season has aired. That's clear gender prejudice. It does not qualify as an opinion.
    ...ignores context entirely. His viewpoint is about their decision to change The Doctor's gender while a global row on gender politics is going on. The optics of the situation, even to me, are that this decision has a political foundation rather than a purely artistic one. That's what he has a problem with, not the woman herself.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    The gender politics of the 60's meant that The Doctor absolutely had to be a white man. That restriction remained in place much longer than it had any business remaining in place. Claiming that modern gender politics are forcing this change is disingenuous at best - it was gender politics that made it the way it was in the first palce.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    So, the issue is that they've changed aspects of the show to make it appeal to modern audiences. Which they've done shitloads of already. But this is different because its actually about ethics in timelord regeneration or some other bollocks, yeah whatever

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    You see icemann, when you got Vae to agree with you and pulling his retarded troll card for your cause, you're on the wrong fucking boat. It's just a fucking TV show that's pretty boring to begin with.
    They're replacing the male lead with a woman. Maybe they do it to appeal to some teens, maybe just to jazz things up a bit, it doesn't matter.
    What does matter is that you just became part of a very vocal group of troglodytes who feel threatened and insulted when a female meddles with their toys and will lash out against that woman in the worst possible way.
    And don't tell me you're not part of them. Because when you're in a demo of asshats and don't get out asap and loudly pronounce your differing opinion then you're a part of that shitpool and deserve to be treated like them.
    Fuck, I'm tired of you manchildren wailing like babies whenever a woman comes near. You came out of a pussy and while you may never get close to another, that should be enough to show some respect.
    You're being an asshole Kolya. People ought to be able to express an opinion about whether gender is important to the character or not based on historical or artistic reasons without being called a troglodyte, asshat, shitpool, manchild, etc. Your post is a shining example of the ad hominem attacks that create a backlash against "social justice warriors".

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Trance View Post
    His viewpoint is about their decision to change The Doctor's gender while a global row on gender politics is going on. The optics of the situation, even to me, are that this decision has a political foundation rather than a purely artistic one. That's what he has a problem with, not the woman herself.
    Your opinion that a "global row on gender politics is going on" is slanted to begin with. Others might simply describe it as a change towards equality.
    You call that change "political" to distance yourself from it and devaluate it, which is a problem for itself because politics are a representation of society and you cannot distance yourself from it because you are part of society. But it's also just factually wrong. Did any politician demand Doctor Who to become a woman?
    The move towards equality is actually a societal change. And a TV show that wants to stay relevant would be well advised to pick up on such societal changes. Otherwise we would still have the TV shows of the 50s.

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    You're being an asshole Kolya. People ought to be able to express an opinion
    If you don't like my reaction to your "opinions", get better opinions.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    You didn't even try to respond to or rebutt any of his points, you just suddenly threw a bunch of ad hominem insults at him.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    also can we stop saying "retconned" because jesus christ that is really irritating me.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    I assume by "his points" you mean icemann's. Let's look at those points.

    1. "It's a retcon" - We already know that the show has had multiple retcons for various reasons. And why not.
    2. "I'm all for women's lib and all that, but the Doctor is male. Always has, always should be." - An appeal to the status quo while forgetting that previous changes and retcons are also part of the status quo, in other words this is cherry picking.
    3. "Have it be a completely new Timelord with her own unique back story." - That's a preference, not an argument.

    I understand that none of you thinks of themselves as misogynists, but the truth is that sometimes the preferences you've come to hold dear from childhood to now are based on misogyny of others in the past, eg why heroes of films and tv shows historically have been white males. You truly seem to believe that this was an "artistic choice" ignoring proven historical chauvinism, meanwhile hiring a woman rings to you as a "political" agenda.
    There's a willful naivete in that which isn't innocent at all.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Have you also read what I said about this kind of preferences?

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    It's a show that's been running since the 1960s. If its tone was set in stone it would still look like it did back then, eg it would be black/white. Since it obviously does not, you seem to be taking special exception to this particular change. Isn't that so?

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Chicago, IL
    A female doctor eh? So in a year she'll go on maternity leave and then only work part time during office hours.

    How will the universe survive?

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    You could hire two of them, but they'll just sync their periods and pregnancies. :/

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    It's a show that's been running since the 1960s. If its tone was set in stone it would still look like it did back then, eg it would be black/white. Since it obviously does not, you seem to be taking special exception to this particular change. Isn't that so?
    If you take a long look through the "What have you watched lately?" thread I covered this + opinions on the changes that occurred from Doctor to Doctor in extensive detail as part of my earlier watch through of the entire series. Happy reading . I did QUITE a few posts on it as I proceeded through it.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    I assume by "his points" you mean icemann's. Let's look at those points.

    1. "It's a retcon" - We already know that the show has had multiple retcons for various reasons. And why not.
    2. "I'm all for women's lib and all that, but the Doctor is male. Always has, always should be." - An appeal to the status quo while forgetting that previous changes and retcons are also part of the status quo, in other words this is cherry picking.
    3. "Have it be a completely new Timelord with her own unique back story." - That's a preference, not an argument.

    I understand that none of you thinks of themselves as misogynists, but the truth is that sometimes the preferences you've come to hold dear from childhood to now are based on misogyny of others in the past, eg why heroes of films and tv shows historically have been white males. You truly seem to believe that this was an "artistic choice" ignoring proven historical chauvinism, meanwhile hiring a woman rings to you as a "political" agenda.
    There's a willful naivete in that which isn't innocent at all.
    I don't think it was an artistic choice, and I don't think it was political correctness either. Like I said before, I think it was a business decision, intended to draw more female viewers, especially younger ones. Because if they want this show to go on for another generation, they have to develop new fans and not just coast on the traditional fan base.

    The show is over 50 years old and one of the things that has remained constant through its run is that the Doctor is played by a British male actor (Englishman or Scot), so I think it's entirely reasonable to argue about whether the gender and nationality of the actor are important to the role or not. If someone prefers a male actor to play a character that has always been, for 50+ years, male, that does not make them a misogynist. Look up the definition.

    I personally don't give a damn who plays the Doctor, because I've never really watched the show. I liked the theme music, but beyond that it didn't grab my interest. However, I'm defending icemann here because he doesn't deserve a nasty bag of insults just for wanting a favorite show to stay the same.

    It's a show that's been running since the 1960s. If its tone was set in stone it would still look like it did back then, eg it would be black/white. Since it obviously does not, you seem to be taking special exception to this particular change. Isn't that so?
    Everyone expects television technology and equipment to change over time. The identity of the show's central character is naturally more important to long time fans.

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    And, really, saying "if you've got a problem with this then you're a misogynist virgin pissbaby" does nothing except turn you into ammunition for the people you're railing against. Don't engage in stereotypes or you'll become one.

  18. #68
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    I don't think there was this big a furore over Star Trek putting a female captain in as a lead for the show. It's another thing that Voyager was pretty bland and mulchy from what I saw of it, but given that Dr. Who fans have 5+ decades of stuff to revisit if they don't like the show's new stylings (and let's be fair, Who's spinoffs like Torchwood proved that these things can be extremely progressive), what do you stand to lose? At best this might serve as a shot in the arm and you get a fun series if the casting and writing are good (ahahahahaha *snort* ...ahem), and at worst you can write it off as an experiment that didn't work. It's not the end of the world.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Chicago, IL
    ...Aaaaannnd, the show still failed to defang the Social Justice crusaders with this move: https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DFAisKzV0AArMZS.jpg:large


    No matter how much you try to appease the Left, they always want more, more, more.

  20. #70
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    You do talk a load of shite, Krush. All the time.

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    He does read the twitter feed of "Feminist Frequency" though, which I wouldn't dream of doing.

    Unless you were only googling for ammunition, Krush, but you wouldn't fall so low, now would you?

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Chicago, IL
    Even lower than that.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Spoken like an honest man. Seriously though, how does that twitter feed speak for "the Left" who "always want more, more, more"?
    Can I use any right wing nut's verbal vomit now and assume that it speaks for "the Republicans", including you? Do you think that's fair?

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Chicago, IL
    It's not one person, it's the overall pattern of how these people are shaping the culture. Black Heimdall, female Sherlock Holmes, female Doctor Who, Iron Man now a black girl in the comics. Thor now a woman, Hermione switched to black in the Harry Potter stage play, Sulu now gay...I'm actually amazed Kirk and Spock are still white and straight. Not to mention the female Jedi who instantly grasps all the Force powers and can defeat dark Jedi easily, using abilities it took Luke years - and three movies - to master.

    It's not just fictional characters - they've retconned Alexander Hamilton as gay and black in a play, plus replaced Andrew Jackson with a black woman on the $20 bill, and started removing all Confederate war monuments.

    It's a calculated program of cultural and racial erasure and re-writing.


    Also I'm not a Republican but an alt-righter.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: London / London / London
    fucking leftwing electricity, whats wrong with just setting a lump of pitch on fire

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