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Thread: Doctor Whoessa: Time Lady

  1. #101
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Iacon
    It's funny that icemann posted a space marine. While geek culture has slowly adapted to accomodate female fans and creators, I think 40k is one subset that has stayed very much "by men, for men".

    If GW ever writes in lady marines I imagine the resulting nerdrage will not be pretty.

  2. #102
    Taking a break
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimpy Chompy View Post
    It's funny that icemann posted a space marine. While geek culture has slowly adapted to accomodate female fans and creators, I think 40k is one subset that has stayed very much "by men, for men".

    If GW ever writes in lady marines I imagine the resulting nerdrage will not be pretty.
    More specifically, by 13 year olds in adult bodies for 13 year olds.

    Besides which Warhammer already has all female combat units in the canon.

  3. #103
    Taking a break
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by Vivian View Post
    That space marine could be a woman, you know
    Actually...it can't.


    And you know what else is amazing?

    Nobody here seems to give a shit about ANYTHING else other than how this touches on their own petty-ass little social justice vendettas, and is missing what actually matters about this show: that it's probably going to make the show suck even harder than it has been languishing under Moffat (A few episodes like Heaven sent excepted of course).


    Or is it...possibly because you all know deep down but will never admit that shows like this, as a result of the way nerds think (being generally followers), tend to be trendsetters for the beliefs that people in your social circles have and that you know that it will push their opinions further/closer to the ones you want them to have?

    That's too much fucking weight to put on a silly show like this.


    Is it politically correct to want girls to watch your show? I don't think so. Is it politically correct to appeal to girls by casting a female lead? I don't think it is. That's just common sense.

    Probably they just wanted to widen the audience beyond the (presumably) older male sci-fi geek crowd, so they could sell more expensive ad slots and maybe increase the show's budget. Will they lose some of their long time viewers? Sure they will. But they're probably calculating it will be more than offset by new viewers.
    The show already appealed to girls. It just so happens that your guess at the shows viewers being "older males". A majority of fans are female last I heard.

    Why wouldn't a show about a dashing man with a troubled past and sexy accent who can whisk you away on fantastic adventures appeal to women?

    It's not wrong for women to like watching a show because it has a sexy male lead. Ironically enough I expect that this move will actually appeal LESS to female fans because you're isolating the ones who watch because they like the dashing male lead and you aren't going to bring in enough new girl power motivated viewers to replace them

    Classic marketing mistake. If you alienate your core fanbase trying to bring on new ones you've just traded something great for a hypothetical. It rarely works in practice because 95%+ of the time it's easier to retain customers/viewers you already have than to acquire new ones. Let me know the moment you find ANYONE who suddenly decides that they're going to start watching the show because it has a female lead, or that they've decided that they're finally going to watch the show now that Doctor Who (already known for being extremely progressive) has stopped their sexist policy of only male-lead doctors.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 19th Jul 2017 at 10:59.

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Iacon
    Angry at the wrong things, with a helping of "you can't admit the truth to yourself". A very Tony post.

    Kind of sad that that better representation of women in popular scifi is described as a petty-ass vendetta.

    Nothing is lost. Nothing is taken away from the character. Girls in the audience can see that sometimes the hero is more like them. And if they'd rather have a dashing male lead then, well, I'm sure that will be the case again in a few years.

  5. #105
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Chimpy Chompy View Post
    Angry at the wrong things, with a helping of "you can't admit the truth to yourself". A very Tony post.
    Maybe he's right, and we can't see this truth for ourselves because we're all suffering from cognitive dissonance confirmation bias social justice warrior triggered problematic.

  6. #106
    Member
    Registered: May 1999
    Location: on the socio path
    It simply doesn't matter to me as long as the fiction allows for it, and more importantly the thought "does this casting choice help further gender inclusiveness?" did not exist anywhere in the decision process. If you don't understand why, you're not a very tolerant person. This could be the beginning of something great for the show, who knows.

  7. #107
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    They way I see it, I'm rather bored of the show, and this could add some spice to what's becoming a stale mix (though I still think this wouldn't have happened if they let Capaldi curse more). For me, it doesn't have anything to do with being inclusive, or social justice or whatever. A female doctor could make the show interesting again, simply for the shift in perspective.

    But let's not let this get in the way of a good Tony Tarantula Tirade.

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I really liked the Capaldi seasons.... Except for his first one (good starting episode though). The rest, and in particularly his final season were excellent. Especially if your a fan of the old series (1950-80s) as this incorporated much of what was, and incorporated it into the new so that both co-existed fine. Gender swapping was the only retcon I can think of that occurred during those seasons. The rest stuck to what had been established.

    As for if there was ever a Doctor I really disliked. Sylvester McCoy (the last of the Doctors from the old series). Though this was FAR LESS due to him personally and more the direction the show had taken. The stories had become quite poor (though not all of them) and the standard of the show had dropped quite significantly. It didn't help that the head of the BBC at the time hated sci-fi with a passion. At the time of McCoy coming in, there had been some nasty business with the Doctor before, Colin Baker being fired suddenly + numerous other odd choices around that point in time, to the detriment of the show as a whole.

    The funny thing is, is that in this whole debate here, I think I may be the only one here whose watched the entire series and with a true love of the show (both old and new). Doctor Who is a show that I've grown up with. I was completely obsessed with it as a kid (mostly due to Tom Baker + the Daleks and Cybermen), and it's been there across my lifetime. I don't want to see the show changed beyond recognition. I want the show to continue to shine and live on for decades to come. But if too much is changed, then there is a good chance that this may ruin it and see it's cancellation again. Just as what occurred in the 80s. Though the last cancellation was more due to the BBC and less due to ratings.

    The Doctor is male. Always was, always should be. That's The Doctor.

    Now I should point out that there was one case of a female Doctor earlier. BUT, it was in a comic relief special, so that doesn't count (and certainly doesn't make it cannon). She was the final regeneration in that special. Played by Joanna Lumley (of Absolutely Fabulous fame). The special if you want to look it up was called "Doctor Who: The Curse of Fatal Death". I did like seeing Rowan Atkinson play one of the regenerations. Always wanted to see him play the Doctor someday. Shame it was only in comedy.
    Last edited by icemann; 19th Jul 2017 at 14:39.

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    But why do you believe a woman is going to ruin it? Why is that such a drastic change to you? She's not going to paint the Tardis pink. Have you never met a tough woman?
    Seriously, I think in a year you will acknowledge that Jody Whittaker makes a great Doctor. Different perhaps, but good.

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I haven't watched much of the show - just a few episodes here and there - but I got the impression that, if he had the choice for each regeneration, The Doctor is the kind character who might well decide to be male 12 times in a row, and then try being female for a change. No idea if he's meant to have any level of choice over who he regenerates as, though.

    Seems like one of the few cases of a show where they could get away with something like this.

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    I haven't watched much of the show - just a few episodes here and there - but I got the impression that, if he had the choice for each regeneration, The Doctor is the kind character who might well decide to be male 12 times in a row, and then try being female for a change. No idea if he's meant to have any level of choice over who he regenerates as, though.

    Seems like one of the few cases of a show where they could get away with something like this.
    My impression is that the ability to control the regeneration varies considerably. There's an episode in the older run where Romana flits through several variations as easily as a change of wardrobe before settling on something. It's either that, or the Doctor just likes the surprise of whatever randomly shows up when he regenerates. It's not like the Doctor has no control over it. He did re-grow a hand before the process had completed and his hand had gotten lopped off by an enemy.

    Speaking of Romana, I was fine with the Master regenerating as a woman, I'm fine with the Doctor regenerating female, but for some reason it would irk me greatly for Romana to return as a man. And I would like to see her in a storyline somehow.

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: The Land of Make Believe
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    She's not going to paint the Tardis pink.
    Well, obviously.


    She will get a man in to do it.

  13. #113
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Minecraft
    I can't say I watch Dr Who, mostly because it's pretty rubbish, so whether the person playing the role is male or female doesn't mean an awful lot to me. But a little part of me would have liked the new Dr to be male as it would have irritated the kind of people I generally don't like.* Because I'm mature like that.

    *You know the kind, the ones who were posting their outrage on twitter when Kate Middleton gave birth to a boy.

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Iacon
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    The Doctor is male. Always was, always should be. That's The Doctor.
    why?

    The doctor will still be a time travelling wizard in a box, who likes helping people and is accompanied by a human or two. This is a step for inclusivity, but it's hardly a "change beyond all recognition".
    Last edited by Chimpy Chompy; 20th Jul 2017 at 11:53.

  15. #115
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2011
    Location: Wild and Wooly West of Ireland
    Date night must be really interesting around your way, CC.

    Spot on, Chris.

  16. #116
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Meh, can't watch Doctor Who anymore without getting a hard-on.


    IT'S RUINED!

  17. #117
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    I feel like making this thread was a mistake.

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Not a mistake, a blessing!...You've done your part for social justice!...Screw the congruity of a universe and the corruption of a legendary character, more anti-white male victories are what we need to make the world a better place!...

  19. #119
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I think it's funny how the people who are on here taking a stand against shrill social justice warrior types getting their panties in a twist over nothing are the ones being the most shrill, and getting their panties in a wad. The irony's so thick, you could cut it with a knife.

    The Doctor is a chick now? QUICK GUYS! MAKE A STAND AGAINST THE EMPTY HEADED TYRANNY OF THE SOCIAL JUSTICE BRIGADE BEFORE THEY STEAL OUR DICKS! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE! UNTRUTHS! CONFIRMATION BIAS!

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Perhaps. It certainly does make me think of this post from the wonderfulness that is Swear Trek

    https://sweartrek.tumblr.com/post/16...bout-star-trek

  21. #121
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    The Doctor is a chick now? QUICK GUYS! MAKE A STAND AGAINST THE EMPTY HEADED TYRANNY OF THE SOCIAL JUSTICE BRIGADE BEFORE THEY STEAL OUR DICKS! COGNITIVE DISSONANCE! UNTRUTHS! CONFIRMATION BIAS!
    I know, that's what I've been sayin'!...They try and pretend it's about the corruption of a legendary character and universe, no matter what form that corruption takes, but that's not what we want to hear!......It has to be because they're afraid of losing their toxic male power, regardless of what logical argument is presented!...

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Maybe if you didn't see yourself in a final stand against political correctness you would have noticed that we discussed if a female lead conflicts with the fiction and lo and behold - it doesn't, because the doctor is a reincarnating alien.
    And besides a general aversion to change (always has been, always will be) there hasn't been made any point that speaks against it. But you keep on yelling "corruption of a legendary character" and wonder why no one's listening.
    It's not that we don't want to hear it, the reason people ignore you is because you don't have a point, Vae.

  23. #123
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: Sulphur, whatever
    What's a Vae?

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Quote Originally Posted by Sulphur View Post
    What's a Vae?

  25. #125
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Gotta love Spoony. Shame he stopped doing videos.

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