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Thread: "Musical" Puzzle assistance required.

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Russia

    "Musical" Puzzle assistance required.

    Greetings,
    So the topic of question is - how can I theoretically create "musical puzzle" in Thief 2?
    What is this?
    There's that kind of puzzles in some games, where first there been shown few colors in certain order, like "Red, Green, Purple", then after that you need to play/activate exact colors and in case in picking wrong one or in wrong order -- the act will be started over, and after completing current act there will be another, like -- "Red, Green, Purple, Red", or full puzzle complete (in case of the last act)...
    So the question, how can similar puzzle be done in Thief 2? Because presumambly conversation and custom scripts is something that could help, but then:
    A. How to make it recognise which color I should pick now and now?
    B. How to, after completing Act 1, make it to replace the required order with Act 2, 3 and so on?

    Please, enlighten me If possible.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    You can use the setup for a combination lock, without the odometer, and with the number buttons disguised as normal ones (or buttons of different colours). This is how it was done in Broken Triad. For a musical puzzle, each button also needs a CD link to a SoundTrap linked to a custom schema.

    This is the combination lock tutorial:
    http://dromed.whoopdedo.org/dromed/odometer

    Even though your buttons won't be showing any numbers, the NumberButton script will work fine as long as long as the TxtRepl r0 property is set.

    For part B, you can use multiple QuestVarTriggers (each one requiring a unique number), for each act. You could use a set of NVLinkBuilder objects so that when act 1 is complete, the CD link from the first trigger is removed, and a CD link from the second trigger is created. Or you could use Inverters, RequireAllTraps and a cunningly placed ScriptParams link.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2012
    Location: Gèrmany
    Well well I have some ideas more and less complicated/resourceful.

    I got one without using QVars but it would take up some space and teleports. But I think lets stick to the QVar idea first.

    --------------------------------------------------
    How to show the player the sequence

    First the starting situation, think about a sequence you want to have like : RGRRBGBR (12113231 for example your triggering QVar)

    Okay I assume you have some objects with anim light...
    Now with for example the DHub script you can activate them in Order.

    You would make a sequence of
    DHubTurnOn="Target=RedObject"
    DHubTurnOn2="Target=RedObject;Delay=1;Relay=TurnOff;"
    DHUbTurnOn3="Target=GreenObject;Delay=1"
    DHUbTurnOn4="Target=GreenObject;Delay=2;Relay=TurnOff;"
    DHUbTurnOn5="Target=RedObject;Delay=2;"
    ...

    So the objects will be TurnedOn(standard message) for 1 second then TurnedOff again.
    How you first trigger the DHub is up to you.
    ------------------------------------------

    Okay now the player had the chance to learn the sequence. Now how to test it?
    I'm sure there is some way to do it with QVars and some traps.
    EDIT: R Soul was faster than me

    ---
    For the second part I had the idea to teleport the player into a new room, same setup.

    Also shouldn't be another QVarTrigger linked to a RAT which got a TurnOn via a RelayTrap with NoOff from the first QVarTrigger be enough. (nice sentence....

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    IIRC Yandros did a musical puzzle way back in the dawn of time in one of his missions. It meant that I could not complete the mission since I am not musically literate. It made me quite cross. Just like a colors puzzle would annoy a color blind person. My advice is not to do it.

    Edit: or, to clarify a bit, not to make it exclusively musical. Use a visible pattern, glyph, or other symbol as well. Same for color coding, use a pattern there too. That way if people are color blind or tone deaf, they still have a shot at it.
    Last edited by LarryG; 1st Aug 2017 at 22:24.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: X:0.0000; Y:0.0000; Z:0.0000
    I made a music puzzle in the third mission of TROTB 1. It was setup as a number combo. I made the mech wings function as a number button. Also, each wing had their own schema class type for them to have a specific desired medley.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Russia
    Thanks for the tips! I'll try working out something.
    A question - how to make lever auto froboff itself in certain amount of time?

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    I suppose you could CD a marker with an NVRelayTrap which has a timed delay and is CD linked back to the switch.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2012
    Location: Gèrmany
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    I suppose you could CD a marker with an NVRelayTrap which has a timed delay and is CD linked back to the switch.
    Basically this.

    You can also directly place the NVRelayTrap on the lever with NVRelayTrapOff="TweqComplete";
    Maybe also with NVRelayTrapExclusiveDelay=1 so when the player is messing with the setup only the latest message will have an effect.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Russia
    So, today I've got a little idea of how to work it...
    I'm not sure how to make Odometer react to "RestartPuzzle" whenever any wrong number been picked, or If Is it possible to make certain amount of numbers required (not just only 4 numbers, but 3, or 5, or so on...) But I think I've got another idea...

    Each act will have RAT and a Conversation. First -- the NPC in Blue Room plays conversation, and frobs levers in certain order, showing you the combo, then frobs "StartPuzzle" lever and you begin... 1 3 3 1? "Good! Let's go next..." But 1 2...? "Wait-wait, wrong! Lemme play the Conversation again and restart the combo!"

    Each combo button will activate It's own EmitterTrap that launches an arrow with certain stim. There will be doors in the way. First door will react as "Correct" to the StimOne, and "Wrong" to the StimSecond-Fourth ones. As the first will be correct It'll open and there will be another door, that will react to the StimThird as "Correct", and "Wrong" to the other three. Any suggestion?

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    My only advice is don't be too clever with your puzzle. People had a hard enough time with the combos in shipping and receiving and they were dead obvious. If you think the puzzle is simple, they will find it hard. If you think it is difficult, they will consider it impossible. When you are playing a mission and worrying about a guard catching you, puzzles are orders of magnitude more difficult than if you just read them when not playing.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Russia
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    My only advice is don't be too clever with your puzzle. People had a hard enough time with the combos in shipping and receiving and they were dead obvious. If you think the puzzle is simple, they will find it hard. If you think it is difficult, they will consider it impossible. When you are playing a mission and worrying about a guard catching you, puzzles are orders of magnitude more difficult than if you just read them when not playing.
    On off-topic though: I wonder how many people solved the puzzle in Ominous Bequest on their own.

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