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Thread: Charlottesville Virginia

  1. #76
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    According to this, we have 50 black people, 39 Hispanics, 15 Asians, and 2 Amerindians currently sitting in congress.

    ...wuh...wuh...what's your point?

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Okay you ASSHAT, go back to my very first post and answer the question!

    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    Okay, lets be responsible here and in order to assign proper blame lets answer a question:

    What percentage of all senators and congressmen in America are WHITE?

    And, a little follow up question:

    How long has it been this way?
    PERCENTAGE, you... asshat.

    Asshat.

  3. #78
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    ...yeah?

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Jesus Christ!

    The predominately WHITE American government has been sending the ultimate message of inequality since the beginning. How does *anyone* have any right to whine about "racism".

  5. #80
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    While it's never a bad thing to have proportional representation, the fact that the seats in congress don't skew perfectly along demographic lines isn't, by itself, proof of endemic racism.

    Though what does this have to do with actual, honest to god Nazis marching in Charlottesville? How does it determine anyone's right to whine about anything?

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    I'm sure your point makes sense in your head, but it kind of dissolves into aimless babble when it hits open atmosphere.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Well, *if* you didnt know already, I am one of those folks who believe that the elites paid *all* the actors that day, and that the entire thing is yet another false flag attempt at our individual liberties and freedoms. Because, last time I checked, a HUGE portion of America *still* doesnt give two shits less about your stupid repub/demon BULLSHIT. America dont care! The hardworking Americans who keep you 1%ers afloat dont care!

  8. #83
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Wellppppppppppppp...

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: swimming in pickled herring
    [QUOTE=The hardworking Americans who keep you 1%ers afloat dont care![/QUOTE] Renzatic, can I have a bit of that 1%er cash that you are clearly hogging? I need it to build a shield for myself from contrails.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: swimming in pickled herring
    And that's why you don't post after having eating pickled herring.

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: swimming in pickled herring
    I'm not as think as you drunk I am.

  12. #87
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Alright, people. Let's not pick on GMD TOO much.

    He's far from being the only one who's gone outlandish over these last couple of years. I mean I'm currently arguing with someone on Facebook who thinks that George Soros hired the Nazis we're all now griping about. GMD actually makes that guy look sane by comparison.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Near Brisbane, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    I am one of those folks who believe that the elites paid *all* the actors that day
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    I'm currently arguing with someone on Facebook who thinks that George Soros hired the Nazis we're all now griping about. GMD actually makes that guy look sane by comparison.
    Yeah nice try Renz.

    To be fair I see left-leaning news sites like Vox making a similar claim in reverse: "Trumpism, in short, is fundamentally a hustle. It’s essentially a bet that if you punch nonwhite America in the face, white America will be so busy gawking they won’t notice their pockets are being picked." There's frightening amount of conspiracy theory floating around these days.

    EDIT: Actually I get the impression that basic dynamic is at play here, in the sense that Republicans are pressured to ignore how they are getting screwed by the Republic party because they're all on the same side of the culture wars. I just don't think it's a deliberate conspiracy.

  14. #89
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    That'd be true if it weren't for the fact we're all paying as much attention to the Republicans as we are to Trump's latest antics.

    We're not seeing any feints here. No distractions to keep us occupied while the Republicans ply their ideologies in secret. They've been suckered as much by Trump as the rest of us have, and now they're finding themselves in a situation where they can't even revoke the ACA while holding a majority in congress, despite promising to do so over the last 7 years, because they're in such a rush to look good in front of the American people, they keep stumbling over themselves. And the time they could be spending catching their breath while they try to get back up on their own two feet is absorbed doing endless amounts of damage control for Trump.

    If Trumpism is a hustle, it's one that's fooled America in its entirety, Liberal, Conservative, Democrats, Republicans, and everything in between. Trump sold us all on a product that, thus far, hasn't worked nearly as well as advertised.

    I mean damn. A Republican president, the party that primarily concerns themselves with business and commerce above all else, and he can't even manage to keep a bunch of goddamn CEOs from bailing on his advisory board.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 17th Aug 2017 at 03:22.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    I don't think it's so much that Trumpism is a hustle (though it absolutely is, just not quite in the way that article says), it's that American Conservatism is a hustle, and has been for decades. Trump just laid how much of a hustle it was completely bare.

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Whoever pays Trump to do a POTUS impersonation clearly got the short end of the stick.

  17. #92
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
    I don't think it's so much that Trumpism is a hustle (though it absolutely is, just not quite in the way that article says), it's that American Conservatism is a hustle, and has been for decades. Trump just laid how much of a hustle it was completely bare.
    Not necessarily. Conservatism is, at its core, the other half of an argument that's been going on since the founding of the country. While I think modern conservatives tend to be a little too dogmatic and narrow in their thinking, I won't say the ideology as a whole is a flawed one. Sometimes you do need a healthy helping of good old fashioned conservatism in the mix. At the very least, it serves to moderate social liberalisms tendency towards wild abandon.

    A healthy democracy (or representative republic, since people really want to get specific about that these days) needs a bit of both. It's not an issue of one over the other, so much as knowing when one is more necessary. When do we need emphasize positive liberties, or when do we need to let negative liberties thrive. Think Reagan vs. Roosevelt for a good example of this.

    Also, here's an interesting article on why Trump isn't doing conservatism any favors at the moment.

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    To be honest, Renzatic, I think that thinking of actual schools of political thought along one axis only (conservatism on the one side, liberalism on the other) is simplistic and part of the problem. In practical terms, you've obviously got the two parties, so you can't avoid the binary thing in discussions, but "good old-fashioned conservatism", "social liberalism' tendency towards wild abandon", none of these make much sense to me, because there is no such thing as an inherent conservatism or liberalism.

    To my mind, a healthy democracy needs to understand that the one-axis view is a faulty one that doesn't represent ideologies so much as it represents a de-facto two-party system only. There is no platonic ideal of conservatism, nor is there such an ideal of liberalism, and there are other aspects factoring into this. Simplistic views of what ideological positions the two parties represent (or should represent) don't help with a healthy democracy. The way you present this, the best position would always be the moderate one, and that's simply not true. The truth is not always in the middle.

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Mar 1999
    Location: I can't find myself
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    Not necessarily. Conservatism is, at its core, the other half of an argument that's been going on since the founding of the country. While I think modern conservatives tend to be a little too dogmatic and narrow in their thinking, I won't say the ideology as a whole is a flawed one.
    Jeffersonian Democratic Republicanism is a far far far cry from the post-Reagan 'no taxes for the rich, if you're poor it's your fault' philosophy that is modern American Conservatism. The ideology as a whole is flawed because it's based on a reality that quite simply does not exist any more.

  20. #95
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Well, in terms of American politics (and western politics in general), you could break things further down into fiscal and social axes. While we only have two parties, each party is a conglomeration of a bunch of subfactions that generally stay around the same area on the political spectrum, but aren't necessarily exactly the same. There is no such thing as just Democrats, and just Republicans.

    Like, for instance, on the Republican, you have Tea Party/Freedom Caucus Republicans, which adhere to the idea of small government, a completely free, unregulated market, and traditional social values. They contrast against moderate Republicans, who prefer more deregulation to regulation, and are more flexible on conservative issues, but still tend towards traditionalism in the latter regard. For some reason, you usually see big L Libertarian among Republicans more often than the Democrats, even though they're almost completely liberal on social issues.

    Democrats tend to be a little more homogenous these days. You could break them down into two factions. First, you have the moderate Democrats, which are somewhat like moderate Republicans, but more open to social programs, and usually address social issues more heavily at the federal level. The other is Bernie Sanders, who wants to go whole hog New Deal style Welfare Statist.

    Of course you could break it down even more, but this is basically the microcosm of American politics. If you zoom back a bit, American politics almost is on one axis, a bunch of subfactions floating around and straining against each other over the single question at the heart of it all: what is the role of government in a free society, and what constitutes too much of it. Both of our parties are formed around the two different opinions to that one question.

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Okay, that already makes more sense to me, for one thing because it acknowledges that there are more dimensions at play and that this is largely about the political realities of the US (and to some extent all de-facto two-party systems). I'd still argue that you're not going to get a very healthy democracy if everything is conflated into one axis, because at that point you're going to get a useless at best, dangerous at worst, mix of political ideology and tribalism.

  22. #97
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Fafhrd View Post
    Jeffersonian Democratic Republicanism is a far far far cry from the post-Reagan 'no taxes for the rich, if you're poor it's your fault' philosophy that is modern American Conservatism. The ideology as a whole is flawed because it's based on a reality that quite simply does not exist any more.
    I think you're right.

    You can't deny the initial success of Reaganite policy. Sometime, you do need to deregulate, cut taxes, and let the market grow on its own without much government interference. The problem is, the Republicans saw just how successful it was at the time, declared Reagan a god among men, and decided to adopt it as their sole ideology, continuing to push his policies even when it hurts us to do so.

    "We'll keep doing it and doing it and doing...and oh shit, we're out of money. Let's dip into Social Security, and bitch about welfare. Oh shit, Social Security is getting to be insolvent. Let's talk about privatizing it! Keep bitching about welfare. We'll get this government so small, we'll be able to drown it in a bathtub, easy!"

  23. #98
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Thirith View Post
    Okay, that already makes more sense to me, for one thing because it acknowledges that there are more dimensions at play and that this is largely about the political realities of the US (and to some extent all de-facto two-party systems). I'd still argue that you're not going to get a very healthy democracy if everything is conflated into one axis, because at that point you're going to get a useless at best, dangerous at worst, mix of political ideology and tribalism.
    Well there is a 2nd axis in there, but it doesn't need to be addressed, since both parties are usually well entrenched in the libertarian side of that axis. We're a classical liberal country as a default.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    If you zoom back a bit, American politics almost is on one axis, a bunch of subfactions floating around and straining against each other over the single question at the heart of it all: what is the role of government in a free society, and what constitutes too much of it. Both of our parties are formed around the two different opinions to that one question.
    While that is an important question I think there are lots of other questions in a modern state that cannot be reduced to that. And yet they are somehow in the US. Which makes finding common ground much harder than it might be in those other questions.

  25. #100
    Taking a break
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    I'm not following this garbage as much as you guys, but I heard that when some wanker mowed down a bunch of people and managed to kill 1 of them as well, it got me curious: were they there because of political activism and stuff or were they just there randomly going to a store and not realizing there's a bunch of fuckboys playing civil war and killing each other? Anyone here knows about that? If it's just political activists, then okay, whatever. A stupid cause to potentially give your life for, but that's just me.

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