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Thread: Charlottesville Virginia

  1. #176
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You're kinda begging to be banned, aren't you?
    No, but if that turns out to be the case, I hope you would limit it to CommyChat.

    Prior to the Trump Wars, I was only ever banned but one time.

  2. #177
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night

  3. #178
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Next-Level Gaming: The New ‘Call Of Duty’ Will Penalize Players For Shooting Nazis Who Are Actually Very Fine People

    Instead of just blasting away at every enemy soldier, players will have to consider whether each individual Nazi might be an otherwise decent person who just happens to be fighting alongside some real bad apples. Shoot a Nazi who’s actually a pillar of his community and is proud of his heritage and you’ll take a blow to your health or ammo.

    [. . .]

    With their identical uniforms, similar shouted slogans, and almost indistinguishable behavior, gamers will have to push their skills to the limit to pick out the regular-Joe Nazis from the actually evil Nazis they’re supposed to shoot. But for true completists, it will be worth it when they unlock the “Just War” achievement for beating the game without shooting a single Nazi who, in fact, doesn’t agree on absolutely everything with his comrades!

  4. #179
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    I will let this young lady do the talking:


  5. #180
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You're kinda begging to be banned, aren't you?
    More free speech encouragement. Nice. Nothing new, but always a nice thing to see.

  6. #181
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Free speech does not mean other people are obligated to give you a platform for your ideas.

  7. #182
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    This XKCD comic applies, as so often.

  8. #183
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    It also doesn't mean erratic hateful behaviour against groups of people should be encouraged. Like, you know, what this thread is about.

    Edit: yup, that XKCD comic is always on point, Thirith.

  9. #184
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    Wow, even you Kolya?

    Sad thing is, Im not sure if you do or dont understand that Renz is mocking me for witnessing geoengineering, as that occured before your recent return, unless you were lurking all along and are now getting your jab in too.
    Your memory is failing you here, stratosfear.

  10. #185
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Free speech does not mean other people are obligated to give you a platform for your ideas.
    Quite. But doing so is a step towards actually expanding your mind.

  11. #186
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    "If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"

    That's my take on the statue take down.

    The world was (and still is in many places) a terrible place. People did horrible things. But if we whitewash them from history then we've learned nothing.

  12. #187
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    Your memory is failing you here, stratosfear.
    OK, so you were there.

    That doesnt mean you hafta take a jab at poor GMD tho, I mean, have I *ever* done anything hateful to anybody?

    Um, no... but I sure have taken a *lot* of abuse! Again, all is gravy, in tha navy, peace then for now, crackers. But please, do enjoy the video of my friend I linked for you guys, here in bubble-land, you know, just to give you a glimpse of what us *real* 99%ers are like.

  13. #188
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    Quite. But doing so is a step towards actually expanding your mind.


    Besides, I don't consider listening to bigoted comments about how white supremacy is awesome and how gay people are icky as expanding one's mind. Rather the opposite, in fact.

    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    "If you do not learn from history, you are doomed to repeat it"

    That's my take on the statue take down.

    The world was (and still is in many places) a terrible place. People did horrible things. But if we whitewash them from history then we've learned nothing.
    So, should there be statues for the British generals of the Revolutionary War, lest people forget? Also, what would you learn from it (other than the year of birth, year of death, and how the guy looked on a horse)?
    Last edited by Starker; 19th Aug 2017 at 13:47.

  14. #189
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Everyone looks good on horse. So that's a no-brainer.

  15. #190
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Maybe not quite everyone.


  16. #191
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I wasn't saying to build new statues. More in keeping the existing ones, as they are a part of a history.

    We may not like what has happened in the past by leaders, BUT it is part of history. And remembering those parts/facts and not wiping them from history is important for future generations.

    As someone posted earlier, they were built during a different era. Sure we all may be living in a more "enlightened" time now, but does that give us the right to remove all mention of it? I think not.

    It's like over here in Australia. We have Australia day on the 26th of January, which signifies the date that we were declared a nation. There is a minority of people that call this "invasion day", and want it changed due to the injustices committed against the Aboriginal people. Sure there was numerous evils committed, but the date is the date. Changing the day of celebration wont change what date it was originally declared, so it's silly to change it imo.

  17. #192
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    How does putting a statue in a museum remove all mention of it? People still learn about it in school. The issue is not about whether to remember or forget what happened, the issue is about glorifying the leaders of a failed rebellion by displaying their statues in public spaces. It's not about the victims of the war, it's more about how gloriously the South fought. And that's why certain groups keep rallying around them. They want it to happen again. They want to repeat the history.

  18. #193
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    A public, prominent statue isn't historical (except for facial features - and that only when they're well done), it's a commemorative memorial. In these cases, it's a celebration of racial subjugation and oppression, and the fight for that. The civil war is long over, but the struggle over racial subjugation and oppression continues on a daily basis in this country. It ebbs and flows, but it never ceased and it never even paused. These statues were created by supporters of racial subjugation (klansmen) to commemorate warriors for racial subjugation (confederate soldiers) and now defended by protestors supporting racial subjugation (alt-right) - and there's a mountain of primary-source evidence that that's exactly what they were doing, even in those cases where "white supremacy" isn't literally carved in stone on the statue's base.

    History belongs in books and museums.

  19. #194
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    Um, no... but I sure have taken a *lot* of abuse!
    That has at least as much to do with your presentation as it does your arguments.

    You have a tendency to come up with some of the densest crap imaginable, almost always fail to explain your point in a coherent manner, then talk down to anyone who argues with you as being too blinkered and/or indoctrinated to understand the brilliance of your arguments.

    Contrast yourself with Icemann, who is arguing against the usual grain of the threat, but is being treated with considerably more respect than what you receive. The reason for this is because Ice is smart, and explains his positions well. Even Krush gets the occasional nods of respect, when he breaks out of his usual "THE IMMIGRANTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING BAD WITH THIS COUNTRY!" spiel.

    You do it to yourself, Gold. It's not what you say, it's that you're an obnoxious twit while saying it.

  20. #195
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    then talk down to anyone who argues with you as being too blinkered and/or indoctrinated to understand the brilliance of your arguments.
    You always manage to fabricate and then throw in that little gem. Um, no... some people just start attacking me because:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You have a tendency to come up with some of the densest crap imaginable
    I dont really have any argument Im battling anyone with, Im just stating my opinion/sharing first hand experiences. As an aware independent, sometimes my point of view makes you partisan haxx jelly, I get that, so by all means flame away!

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You do it to yourself, Gold. It's not what you say, it's that you're an obnoxious twit while saying it.
    Yes I know, and Im not worried about it, although I *am* sorry for being rude to Sulphur before.

  21. #196
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I'd like to add that on further thought - If the statue were to go a museum, then that's fine. It's not being hidden from sight, so not being wiped from history. There is only so much room in museums though, so where would you send them when there isn't enough room?

    I guess we all see different things from statues like this. I see them as historical monuments for key points in our history both good and bad. Sometimes there to rally behind, whilst other times to showcase the worst of what we are capable of, and to have it a timely reminder where bad/evil acts can take you (as a leader).

  22. #197
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    There is only so much room in museums though, so where would you send them when there isn't enough room?
    Outside, in the museum garden.
    You can store hundreds of them, per museum.

  23. #198
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post

    Besides, I don't consider listening to bigoted comments about how white supremacy is awesome and how gay people are icky as expanding one's mind. Rather the opposite, in fact.
    This doesn't go into any specifics of the argument as I like to be very abstract at times
    Listening to it? Maybe, maybe not. Understanding why they think the way they think? Yes. Because then you make yourself to consider what the other person has to say. For some topics (like these) it's hard to seperate emotion from the ability to think, but if you do it, then you can start to look more at facts and reality. The main reason because it's hard is because if this reality starts to look contradicting with what is being propogated around and believed by yourself and your environment, you risk alienation. It's one thing to swallow your pride and admit to yourself about being wrong. It's another thing to feel (or even become) alienated to some degree from the people around you. I myself have largely cut influences out of my life (as much as I can) and am an outsider observing everything from afar, so that is why I am the way I am. But I could be wrong, of course.

  24. #199
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Oh, I have no problem understanding bigotry and where it comes from. I have talked to actual neo-nazis in real life and argued with them. And I mean real neo-nazis, not edgy "Hitler did nothing wrong" 4channers. But this doesn't mean I have to pay attention to the crazy ranting of someone standing on a street corner.

  25. #200
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Outside, in the museum garden.
    You can store hundreds of them, per museum.
    Also on battlefields and Confederate cemeteries. They are oddly lacking there. There are plenty of memorials to Union troops and Generals at places like Shiloh or Lookout Mt. but the one place you would think you would see some stab at parity they do not exist. I find that odd. Those places are visited by folks who have read about the battles most. I don't even think removal to those places would upset most reasonable folks. There they would be in a historical setting and not in places where there is no context for them to be. Nearly all the fighting done was here in the south. There are way more battlefields than statues so there would be plenty of room. The battle of Brices Crossroads has not one statue of General Forrest yet it was such a brilliant work defeating a far superior number of Union troops that it is still taught at West Point when weather and terrain is the subject.

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