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Thread: Charlottesville Virginia

  1. #201
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    Um, no... but I sure have taken a *lot* of abuse!
    That has at least as much to do with your presentation as it does your arguments.

    You have a tendency to come up with some of the densest crap imaginable, almost always fail to explain your point in a coherent manner, then talk down to anyone who argues with you as being too blinkered and/or indoctrinated to understand the brilliance of your arguments.

    Contrast yourself with Icemann, who is arguing against the usual grain of the threat, but is being treated with considerably more respect than what you receive. The reason for this is because Ice is smart, and explains his positions well. Even Krush gets the occasional nods of respect, when he breaks out of his usual "THE IMMIGRANTS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR EVERYTHING BAD WITH THIS COUNTRY!" spiel.

    You do it to yourself, Gold. It's not what you say, it's that you're an obnoxious twit while saying it.

  2. #202
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    then talk down to anyone who argues with you as being too blinkered and/or indoctrinated to understand the brilliance of your arguments.
    You always manage to fabricate and then throw in that little gem. Um, no... some people just start attacking me because:

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You have a tendency to come up with some of the densest crap imaginable
    I dont really have any argument Im battling anyone with, Im just stating my opinion/sharing first hand experiences. As an aware independent, sometimes my point of view makes you partisan haxx jelly, I get that, so by all means flame away!

    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    You do it to yourself, Gold. It's not what you say, it's that you're an obnoxious twit while saying it.
    Yes I know, and Im not worried about it, although I *am* sorry for being rude to Sulphur before.

  3. #203
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I'd like to add that on further thought - If the statue were to go a museum, then that's fine. It's not being hidden from sight, so not being wiped from history. There is only so much room in museums though, so where would you send them when there isn't enough room?

    I guess we all see different things from statues like this. I see them as historical monuments for key points in our history both good and bad. Sometimes there to rally behind, whilst other times to showcase the worst of what we are capable of, and to have it a timely reminder where bad/evil acts can take you (as a leader).

  4. #204
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    There is only so much room in museums though, so where would you send them when there isn't enough room?
    Outside, in the museum garden.
    You can store hundreds of them, per museum.

  5. #205
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post

    Besides, I don't consider listening to bigoted comments about how white supremacy is awesome and how gay people are icky as expanding one's mind. Rather the opposite, in fact.
    This doesn't go into any specifics of the argument as I like to be very abstract at times
    Listening to it? Maybe, maybe not. Understanding why they think the way they think? Yes. Because then you make yourself to consider what the other person has to say. For some topics (like these) it's hard to seperate emotion from the ability to think, but if you do it, then you can start to look more at facts and reality. The main reason because it's hard is because if this reality starts to look contradicting with what is being propogated around and believed by yourself and your environment, you risk alienation. It's one thing to swallow your pride and admit to yourself about being wrong. It's another thing to feel (or even become) alienated to some degree from the people around you. I myself have largely cut influences out of my life (as much as I can) and am an outsider observing everything from afar, so that is why I am the way I am. But I could be wrong, of course.

  6. #206
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Oh, I have no problem understanding bigotry and where it comes from. I have talked to actual neo-nazis in real life and argued with them. And I mean real neo-nazis, not edgy "Hitler did nothing wrong" 4channers. But this doesn't mean I have to pay attention to the crazy ranting of someone standing on a street corner.

  7. #207
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Outside, in the museum garden.
    You can store hundreds of them, per museum.
    Also on battlefields and Confederate cemeteries. They are oddly lacking there. There are plenty of memorials to Union troops and Generals at places like Shiloh or Lookout Mt. but the one place you would think you would see some stab at parity they do not exist. I find that odd. Those places are visited by folks who have read about the battles most. I don't even think removal to those places would upset most reasonable folks. There they would be in a historical setting and not in places where there is no context for them to be. Nearly all the fighting done was here in the south. There are way more battlefields than statues so there would be plenty of room. The battle of Brices Crossroads has not one statue of General Forrest yet it was such a brilliant work defeating a far superior number of Union troops that it is still taught at West Point when weather and terrain is the subject.

  8. #208

  9. #209
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    When you break every conspiracy down to it's core aspects, it always ends up with people being bussed somewhere.
    Last edited by Renzatic; 21st Aug 2017 at 12:37.

  10. #210
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: 1, Rotation: 0
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    As an aware independent, sometimes my point of view makes you partisan haxx jelly, I get that, so by all means flame away!
    Aside from flattering yourself undeservedly, this is what you accused Renz of "fabricating" about you. Your lack of self-awareness is on a Trump-like level.

  11. #211
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    I sometimes go to work by bus.

  12. #212
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    dun dun dun dun dun

  13. #213
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    In other news: Fucking Nazis is not an option. http://www.thestranger.com/slog/2017...-fucking-nazis

  14. #214
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    A public, prominent statue isn't historical (except for facial features - and that only when they're well done), it's a commemorative memorial. In these cases, it's a celebration of racial subjugation and oppression, and the fight for that. The civil war is long over, but the struggle over racial subjugation and oppression continues on a daily basis in this country. It ebbs and flows, but it never ceased and it never even paused.
    The struggle over racial subjugation and oppression continues despite fighting the Civil War. It will continue despite removing these statues. And even if you could remove every symbol and record of slavery in America, it will still continue. Because you can't solve modern problems by fighting over past history.

    These statues were created by supporters of racial subjugation (klansmen) to commemorate warriors for racial subjugation (confederate soldiers) and now defended by protestors supporting racial subjugation (alt-right) - and there's a mountain of primary-source evidence that that's exactly what they were doing, even in those cases where "white supremacy" isn't literally carved in stone on the statue's base.
    If there is such a mountain, share some of it.
    Here are the men who funded and created the Charlotteville statue:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Goodloe_McIntire
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Shrady

    Quote Originally Posted by Gryzemuis View Post
    Outside, in the museum garden.
    You can store hundreds of them, per museum.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    Also on battlefields and Confederate cemeteries.
    Leave the museums and battlefields alone. So far, the people trying to purge symbols of the Confederacy haven't paid too much attention to the museums and battlefields. Moving statues there is just going to give them new targets. As much as I dislike seeing these statues removed or destroyed, closing down Confederate and Civil War museums is far worse. I've already heard of one example, Nash Farm Battlefield in greater Atlanta.

  15. #215
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by heywood View Post
    I've already heard of one example, Nash Farm Battlefield in greater Atlanta.
    Well, the commissioner claims she never asked that the flags inside the museum be removed, just the ones visible from outside, since it was on public property. It's certainly regrettable that the museum decided to shut down in response to that, but really, it seems more like an overreaction on the part of the museum than anything else.

    Here's a story that goes more in depth about it: http://www.myajc.com/news/local/conf...fpefMyD37LumL/

  16. #216
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    A bit of he said, she said there. And then the main donor took his toys and went home.

  17. #217
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    BTW, this happened in my area over the weekend:
    https://www.boston.com/news/local-ne...-boston-common

    I was talking to a coworker today who went to the Boston common on Saturday to march. Although there wasn't much violence overall, it was all from counter-protestors going after the police. Apparently, there were groups of people who had come for a fight, trying to get through the crowds to the rally entrance to confront rally-goers. Having failed to engage any rally-goers, some took it out on police, throwing bottles and rocks and stuff at them, shouting obscenities, blocking their movement, hitting their vehicles, etc. The police were very patient and very few people ended up getting hurt or arrested in the end.

    It wasn't all totally cool. According to my coworker, the crowds around the area he was in ran off anyone they saw with a pro-Trump shirt or cap. The police didn't let any press into the rally area, and literally pulled the plug on the rally, so the first two speeches were just live streamed from a cell phone. And then they convinced the organizers to call it quits before the crowd got too out of hand. They took them down through the garage under the common and drove them out of the area in police vans, but not before having to push through an angry mob blocking their path.

    But considering the number of people who showed up, I heard some estimates up to 40 thousand, it could have been much worse, complete mayhem. The alt-lite group who organized this thing held a previous "free speech rally" in the same location in May, which was put together in response to the cancellation of Milo and associated mini-riot in Berkeley. That rally went off without much fanfare and a few hundred attendees. This time the police were expecting maybe a few thousand counter-protestors to show up because of Charlottesville. Not 40000.

  18. #218
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Goldmoon Dawn View Post
    I will let this young lady do the talking:

    There's nothing more attractive than a strong, intelligent woman, who is able to see and overcome the illusions that would otherwise capture and manipulate the mind of the emotionally insecure.

    After the Civil War, the historical premise for erecting these statues was for unity and forgiveness...in order for the North and South to move forward healed and united as Americans.

    Again, this is the fundamental premise for the existence of these Confederate statues...as opposed to the one-dimensional, distorted perspective of glorifying racism.

    Quote Originally Posted by nbohr1more View Post
    They woke, too...


  19. #219
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Obviously, as the only truly aware, free thinking individual here, a beacon of light among the benighted masses, herp ah derp ah derp ah derp ah doo.

    It doesn't matter how many times it's explained to you, none of you ever quite seem to grasp that the reason you're made fun of here isn't because we're all railing against our own confirmation biases you've all exposed with your Truths, but that you all sound like a bunch of culty douchebags who use catchphrases and buzzwords in lieu of actual debate and honest discussions.

    You, GMD, and Tony pop in, make broad claims without backing up a single thing, then verbally masturbate yourselves in front of everyone on the board. It's goddamn obnoxious.

  20. #220
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    After the Civil War, the historical premise for erecting these statues was for unity and forgiveness...in order for the North and South to move forward healed and united as Americans.
    Oh, come on now. They weren't erected by klansmen to celebrate racial subjugation and they weren't erected for forgiveness to heal the North/South divide either.

  21. #221
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    All these "woke" folks remind me of the woke flat earthers on the NASA site. I wonder how much money gets slipped to these blacks to spout bullshit lies for the alt right. Totally unsubstantiated crap that not one picture in this day of cellphone clicking mania can verify. Of course the alt right idiots slurp it up like it was Hillary's tears. Everyone else understands it's like National Enquirer headlines but they repeat and slather their facebook pages with it like gospel.

  22. #222
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Pacific Northwest


    Some say the two nations are still at war, more than two centuries later, over the proper spelling of the word "aluminum."

  23. #223
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    How I Became Fake News

    I witnessed a terrorist attack in Charlottesville. Then the conspiracy theories began.

    Last Sunday evening, I received a worried call from my sister asking if I had spoken with my mother and father. I had spent the day doing interviews about the vehicle attack I witnessed the day before while protesting the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville and had not been in front of a computer all day. She told me that my parentsí home address had been posted on a neo-Nazi conspiracy theorist message board.

    "They are suggesting that you arranged the attack, Brennan," she said. "There are death threats against you."

  24. #224
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    Everyone else understands it's like National Enquirer headlines but they repeat and slather their facebook pages with it like gospel.
    Have you seen the Enquirer lately? It went full-bore Trump nut.

  25. #225
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night

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