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Thread: Ongoing Terror Attacks

  1. #101
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    Quote Originally Posted by montag View Post
    I nominate PigLick as new mod, cause he would clearly support TartDankTant as per our PM's. Unlike you, he is a man of his word, and a suave and sober fellow.
    I am a Man, Suave and Sober. A simple Man. A man of colours.
    My word is my bond, a promise to all that is good.
    Under my leadership, Comm Chat can rise once again!

  2. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    Just remember that Christian's aren't saints by any sense of the word either on this though. How many millions were slaughtered during the holy crusades of medieval times? All in the aim of securing Jerusalem from those pesky Muslims.

    Far likely to have a much higher death count, then that of current times with Al Qaeda.

    That's basally "whataboutism", and is the exact same logic used to defend Trump by saying "But Hilllary was bad too!".

    It also doesn't consider the context of the era, where the Crusades started mostly as as a counterattack against repeated incursions into Europe.

    Arriving at the worldview that "they're both equally violent!" requires filtering a lot of relevant facts out of the analysis. Here's one that comes to mind:

    It also ignores countless millions of deaths resulting from Islamic incursions into India, Africa, and other places......not to mention the massive amount of deaths that resulted from Protestant factions in Europe purging their opposition, and which of those wars were ones that were started by secular leaders, for secular purposes, and masked with religious rhetoric (like Iraq).

    Again though, I do not primarily blame Islam in the abstract. I blame US foreign policy and our support of regimes that perpetuate it for their own ends.

    It isn't just me. This post just came out today by a senior officer who has just ended his career by posting a screed speaking out against how the US is conducting it's war on terror. One paragraph in particular is salient:

    I know what you’re thinking. ISIS, the Islamic State, is a truly awful outfit. And so it is and the United States is indeed combating it, though various allies and even adversaries — think Iran — are doing most of the fighting. Still, with the broader war for the Greater Middle East in mind, wouldn’t it be appropriate to stop for a moment and ask: Just whose side is America really on?

    Certainly, it’s not the side of the average Arab. That should be apparent. Take a good, hard look at the region and it’s obvious that Washington mainly supports the interests of Israel, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, Egypt’s military dictator and various Gulf State autocracies. Or consider the actions and statements of the Trump administration and of the two administrations that preceded it and here’s what seems obvious.

    The United States is in many ways little more than an air force, military trainer and weapons depot for assorted Sunni despots. Now, that’s not a point made too often — not in this context anyway — because it’s neither a comfortable thought for most Americans, nor a particularly convenient reality for establishment policymakers to broadcast, but it’s the truth.

    Yes, we do fight ISIS, but it’s hardly that simple. Saudi Arabia, our main regional ally, may portray itself as the leader of a “moderate Sunni block” when it comes to both Iran and terrorism, but the reality is, at best, far grayer than that. The Saudis — with whom Pres. Donald Trump announced a $110-billion arms deal during the first stop on his inaugural foreign trip back in May — have spent the last few decades spreading their intolerant brand of Islam across the region. In the process, they’ve also supported Al Qaeda-linked groups in Syria.

    That's the rub. Had 90's and 80's administrations not support Saudi Arabia so staunchly, there would be no Al Quaeda. Had Bush not invaded Iraq, there would be no insurgency or conflict there. Had Obama not worked for "Regime change" in Syria, Libya, and Egypt (successfully in the latter two) there would be no refugee crisis and those people's homes would still be intact.

    If you all want to blame someone, don't blame "Islam" or "Christianity". Blame US intelligence agencies and presidents.
    Last edited by Tony_Tarantula; 9th Sep 2017 at 10:34.

  3. #103
    Registered: Aug 2000
    Location: VIE, .at
    Maybe you could post the relevant quote from that book?
    I looked for my copy on the last weekend and couldn't find it. As you can imagine because I'm big on making decisions based on evidence, so I necessarily retract my claim.

    What else's happening?

    • 2014 an educational establishment was erected in Vienna, a local Islam association chairman claims it's a culture centre with kindergarten. Turns out later, it's an Islam school instead. Neighbouring residents are outraged. Two weeks ago, city education council presses legal charges against the school because it is suspected to hold lessons unlicenced lessons and to receive monetary support from abroad which is illegal in Austria. Director shuts down school, refuses to talk to the newspapers, switches organisation form into an association instead. Background investigation revealed schools of that name and type are aligned with the fundamentalist Millî Görüş movement. Politician Alev Korun says the schools are to be seen as part of an Islamisation strategy of MGm. Turkish-cultural association chairman Birol Kilic says these schools hew against secular and republican values and are out of place in Austria.

    • During a relief aid consigment to Syria a Viennese NGO cooperated with the HCSR organisation which has ties to the Syrian Muslim Brotherhood and which supplied jihadist strike forces during the civil war.

    • Operating licences for fifty-one Viennese kingergartens were revoked, municipal authorities talk about misuse of grant funds and deficits in Islam institutions. City councillor Czernohorszky wants to shut down all institutions that do a poor job, says the goals of an upcoming law amendment is checking how and how much religious subject matter is taught, if there are radical tendencies and the operators are unregenerate, then operating licences are to be revoked. Institutions conforming to a particular confession are to be required to teach in a non-deprecatory fashion about other religions.

    • Recent University of Vienna study reveals that Islam teachers find Islam and democracy are not agreeable. Muslim Brotherhood members take over key positions in Austrian society. Their goal is to divide society and increase the leverage of political Islam, leverage over the state recognised Islam body and instructors of religion teachers are increasing. They are selected by their ideological orientation rather than their professional expertise. The teachers are financed by the Austrian state, but teach ideology from abroad in the classrooms.

    • Viennese city education council reports there are twice as many Muslim than undenominational children in compulsory education. Study conducted by sociologist Mouhanad Khorchide says twenty-one percent of Islam religion teachers openly oppose democracy, twenty-seven percent are against abidance of human rights. Politician Harald Walser calls these results alarming. Politician Wendelin Mölzer reports he received a list of eighty Islam religion teachers, exceptions were made about criteria like citizenship and knowledge of language. Integration expert Kenan Güngör says he sees a tendency toward political radicalisation in adolescents in Austria.

    • Kindergarten in Amstetten removes pork or meals made with pork gelatine from the menu. The relevant memo to the parents cites children from other cultures as reason. This is already the second municipality after Salzburg doing so.


  4. #104
    Registered: Aug 2000
    Location: VIE, .at

    terror attack in Parsons Green/London

    BBC reports:
    • Explosion on Parsons Green Tube train being treated as terrorism
    • Police say it was caused by an 'improvised explosive device'
    • The person who placed the device has not been caught
    • Terror threat level raised to 'critical' - meaning an attack is expected 'imminently'
    • 29 people have been treated in hospital - police say 'most' had 'flash burns'

  5. #105
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    It would make things easier if you posted the sources together with the relevant points, so I wouldn't have to sift through what refers to what.
    But more importantly I'm unclear, what is the point you're arguing for with these news articles?

    The only argument you brought up in this thread apart from the one you retracted was this:
    Quote Originally Posted by Daxim View Post
    terrorism is a predominantly perpetrated by Muslims globally, in Europe, in Africa, in Asia
    This is true according to these statistics I found on the matter:
    And yeah, I'm counting ISIS, Boko Haram and Al-Quaeda as Muslims here, just as I would count Christian terrorists among Christians. Even if their interpretation of the religion vastly differs from that of the majority.

    In my opinion any irrational belief has an inherent potential for dangerous and inhumane interpretations. And the ones who hold and develop that belief system peacefully have a responsibility to contain such dangerous interpretations. A No-True-Scotsman argument does not redeem them of this responsibility. Nor does a decentralized structure.

    The thing is, if you actually look for it, lots of Muslim organisations clearly distance themselves from the terror and denounce it. Such announcements don't make it into the news though, not even local news.

    These articles seem to have only a tangential connection to terrorism though. Mostly they signify problems of integration and an interpretation of Islam that could potentially lead to terrorism and support it. And such structures need to be observed and broken up, just like any other anti-democratic, potentially terrorist structures. But come on, pork in kindergarten does not defend democracy. This is at best cultural preference. Cultures change. And broccoli is good for you.

  6. #106
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    And just because I read that article: There is one Kindergarten in Amstetten that doesn't serve pork. While Salzburg municipal kindergartens did take pork from the menu, that doesn't make it "already the second municipality after Salzburg doing so".
    Here is another article about the Salzburg Kindergartens that paints a different picture:

  7. #107
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Met deploys extra 1,000 armed officers to hunt terror suspects on the run
    Isis claims responsibility for attack

  8. #108
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Quote Originally Posted by Vae View Post
    Isis claims responsibility for attack
    They probably regret that now that someone's been arrested.

  9. #109
    Registered: May 2004
    Isis routinely claims responsibility for all kinds of attacks, whether it has anything to do with them or not. I mean, why wouldn't they?

  10. #110
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    The people who commit these crimes are usually disturbed individuals latching on to some grand ideology to make themselves feel important. It encourages them to know that they're going to get big screaming media headlines, government "crackdowns" and robocops all over the place.

  11. #111
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: the Sheeple Pen
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Isis routinely claims responsibility for all kinds of attacks, whether it has anything to do with them or not. I mean, why wouldn't they?
    Isis never seem to claim responsibility for attacks that fail (by terrorist standards) or where the terrorist gets caught alive and can be interrogated. They'd just look amateurish and stupid if/when it turned out that they've got nothing to do with the attack.

  12. #112
    Registered: May 2004
    Yeah, they've got a fairly sophisticated propaganda arm and weigh the optics for each individual case.

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