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Thread: Lost Places Contest: Bertrand's Forgotten Tomb (September 15, 2017)

  1. #76
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Thanks Ricebug! But I think this part is a little misleading:

    Is there anything to do in the Hall of Projection?
    No.
    This room is absolutely essential to completing the mission (at least, the way it's meant to be played...) Not sure how else you'd come up with the gate 1 code, if you don't accomplish what you need to in the Hall of Projection.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Nampa, Idaho
    I scrutinized everything in that room. Didn't see any markers, QVARs, baloney sandwiches, or other clues. Now, if you're referring to how the bricks are placed, only a savant would be able to see that.

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    It's a little out of the ordinary for thief puzzles, and I know it won't be everyone's cup of tea. But it seems plenty of players were able to solve that room. There are ample hints provided (some for free, some not ) so I don't know that one needs to be a "savant," but it sure helps to be observant and thoughtful.

  4. #79
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: CT, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricebug View Post
    I scrutinized everything in that room. Didn't see any markers, QVARs, baloney sandwiches, or other clues.
    You better get some glasses....


  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    LOL!! Having trouble with the first gate?

    HINT: Open up DromEd, and use your knowledge of qvars to figure out the code.
    Outright spoiler: The code is CTRL+ALT+SHIFT+END (We're all here to just listen to ending music anyway, right?)


  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Nampa, Idaho
    Dang! I missed that sandwich!

    Seriously, by the time a player cracks open one of my walkthroughs/hint guides, they're past the "gimme a hint" stage. They just want a solution so they can keep playing. Some players hate those tiny switches hidden hundreds of paces from XYZ, which make no sense. I'm more of the puzzle hating type. I got A's in English and flunked math every year.

    If you look at the walk on Derelict Dock District, you can see where I referenced the clues leading up to the solutions, the scrolls and so forth. I typically try and do that. Bertrand's FT was mighty slim pickings for clues.

  7. #82
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    I'm sorry to hear you didn't enjoy it! My missions are definitely geared towards puzzle-philes, and that's unlikely to change. But I do try my best to make the puzzles logical and 'fair' (i.e., none of the seemingly arbitrary "tiny switches hidden hundreds of paces from XYZ, which make no sense"---I hate those, too!)

    Not sure I'd agree that it's short on clues (it's got bunches of 'em!), but perhaps they are a bit on the abstract side, making it unclear that they are clues. Did you try interacting with the statues in the assistance room? They're there to help provide more concrete guidance.

    I appreciate the feedback!

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2003
    Location: Nampa, Idaho
    Walkthrough removed at the author's request.

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Ricebug View Post
    Terry the link doesn't provide me the walktrough of this mission.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    That's my fault---I requested that he take the walkthrough down until certain inaccuracies can be rectified. Feel free to PM me if you have questions. I hope to write a walkthrough this weekend, at which point I'll send it to him to post.

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    That's my fault---I requested that he take the walkthrough down until certain inaccuracies can be rectified. Feel free to PM me if you have questions. I hope to write a walkthrough this weekend, at which point I'll send it to him to post.
    Ahhh, alright, i´ve read only now the post above mine reagarding terry walktrough removal, its a pity i can't use his walktrough, i was going through a replay on this mission and forgot the solutions to the puzzles...
    Last edited by Cardia; 26th Sep 2017 at 15:55.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: some ancient Cycladian island
    trefoilknot, I just finished your mission and I really liked it a lot!! I love puzzles and I enjoyed the three gates ones. Easy enough and clever. You can find them without hints (or pain).. Just a question though, about the last 2 gates.. I tried to follow the "led way of thinking" but only Fen's post helped me to solve it.
    Since we have to think about led lines that form digital numbers and this line of thinking is leading us to think about digital displays (like alarm clocks for example) and since these items AFAIK usually don't have diagonal led lines, just led dots and led horizontal & vertical lines of the same size that form letters or numbers , wouldn't it be better (or more logical maybe ?) to make the puzzle the other way round by having every line (including the diagonal) lit and ask to turn OFF the necessary ones? I never counted that one as it was different from the others, and most importantly, because I could not interact with it, so I thought it didn't belong to the "led-family". Other than that, I really enjoyed it and I'm looking forward to your next one..

  13. #88
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    @Ricebug - you probably should edit your post with the link to the walkthough, so people don't think they're actually downloading a walkthrough.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Nightchild, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

    RE: the final puzzle, I'm not counting the diagonal line. Like you say, it isn't an LED so it shouldn't be included. If counting the diagonal helped you solve it, it is pure coincidence. Would you mind PMing me with the solution you thought should work, but didn't? (So I can ensure that I haven't left off any valid answers.)

    Note that the boxes are nested (one is contained within the other). There are 21 total LEDs in the big box, 7 of which are also in the little box.
    Last edited by trefoilknot; 27th Sep 2017 at 08:42.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2009
    Location: some ancient Cycladian island
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    Nightchild, I'm glad you enjoyed it!

    RE: the final puzzle, I'm not counting the diagonal line. Like you say, it isn't an LED so it shouldn't be included. If counting the diagonal helped you solve it, it is pure coincidence. Would you mind PMing me with the solution you thought should work, but didn't? (So I can ensure that I haven't left off any valid answers.)

    Note that the boxes are nested (one is contained within the other). There are 21 total LEDs in the big box, 7 of which are also in the little box.
    hahaha!!! I followed Fen's line of thinking at page 2 of the thread... but it was just a wrong thinking with a lucky result..

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Malmö, Sweden
    Nice design, and quite fun puzzles. Would have preferred a bit more thief work to get the hints, rather than suffer pain, though.

    Familiarizing myself with the final (digital) puzzle now, but first I have to comment a bit on the 3rd gate puzzle:
    I think I figured out which pillars correspond to Strength and Wisdom, but the solution that actually worked (I found it by chance flipping through levers, noticed some opening/closing movement on the gate) is nowhere near what I thought would be logical. To me, Wisdom is the 3rd from left in the upper row, while Strength is the 2nd from left, lower row. So it seemed to me that those two levers should be one way and the other five the other way. But the combo that worked has three levers one way and four the other way.

    ???


    EDIT: the final puzzle was a lot more logical to me - didn't take too long.
    Last edited by jiansonz; 7th Oct 2017 at 16:37.

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Thanks for your comments!
    RE: The 3rd gate, One of the scrolls in the room with the cracked floor provides the link between pillars and virtues/vices.
    The three pillars you need are: Mortar/Brick (strength); iron (wisdom), and stone (wisdom).
    Stone is the pillar on the bottom left; Mortar/Brick is the one next to that (still in the bottom row); and Iron is the 3rd from the left in the top row.
    So the final solution should be:
    Down Down Up Down
    Up Up Down


    P.S. Regarding the assistance room, I decided to go with pain rather than extra 'thief work' (which I had considered) for a couple reasons:
    (1) We're all here because we love 'thief work.' If I made it fun to get the extra hints, it would discourage people from actually trying to solve the puzzles, in earnest. People who solved the puzzles without needing assistance would, in essence, have been cheated out of some thiefy fun, which didn't seem fair.
    (2) I wanted to make it clear that the hints are not required. If it had just been extra thief-y tasks, it would open the door to confusion. Players would likely think they needed to do those extra things to get the information they needed. When in reality, the extra assistance is entirely optional.
    and (3) if I'm being honest... it was also a heckuvalot easier to implement that way!
    Last edited by trefoilknot; 9th Oct 2017 at 11:59.

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Malmö, Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    RE: The 3rd gate, One of the scrolls in the room with the cracked floor provides the link between pillars and virtues/vices.
    The three pillars you need are: Mortar/Brick (strength); iron (wisdom), and stone (wisdom).
    Stone is the pillar on the bottom left; Mortar/Brick is the one next to that (still in the bottom row); and Iron is the 3rd from the left in the top row.
    So the final solution should be:
    Down Down Up Down
    Up Up Down
    Ah, OK. I thought it was only two pillars, because I saw it as the one with iron also had stone in it (they all do, in the brick part). This explains why I could only tie six of the pillars to a particular virtue/vice.



    I see your points about the hints.

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: West Seattle
    I completed it! though I'm still not entirely sure about that last puzzle.
    Aside from that, the hardest part was not speeding off the spiral staircases :O

  20. #95
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Haha! Yes, the staircase is definitely my least favorite aspect of my mission. I'm working on another project, atm, but at some point, I want to release an updated version to deal with that. I also want to change the schemas a bit, and create two versions: one for people who already have HDMOD (as intended) and another that includes all the textures for folks who don't use HDMOD. That way, it looks the same (as I designed it) for everyone.

    Shoot me a PM if you want additional explanation on that last puzzle. Seems it was a sticking point for a lot of folks.

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    I really enjoyed this mission. Writing and the puzzles are standing out. The trick in projection room is a genius. Being a fan of IFS fractals I liked the self-reference of the floor tiles - if you went a step further you'd end up with Cantor dust or Cantor gasket etc...

    I only found out now, that the mission was meant to be played with the HDMOD, which I don't have installed. Generally the visual aspect could be improved more - with more variety in loot placement, added props here and there for atmosphere (cobwebs, debris etc..)

    But overall, this mission being a puzzle mainly was really enjoyable! Thanks for making it and best luck with your next one!

  22. #97
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Thanks PinkDot!

    Funny you mention Cantor... I've got DromEd fired up right now and am working on my next project: "Hilbert's Grand Hotel," and a certain Georg Cantor may or may not play one of the primary antagonists...

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: Argentina
    Just replayed it a while ago. This is how a puzzle mission is made. Good job!

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    High praise; thank you, DarkMax!

  25. #100
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Tasmania
    An enjoyable little mission trefoilknot, well done.

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