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Thread: Lost Places Contest: Bertrand's Forgotten Tomb (September 15, 2017)

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA

    Lost Places Contest: Bertrand's Forgotten Tomb (September 15, 2017)

    Very excited about the release of my very first fan mission, Bertrand's Forgotten Tomb, available here: http://www.southquarter.com/download...gottenTomb.zip.

    If anyone struggles to download through Southquarter, here's a direct link to the Dropbox file: https://www.dropbox.com/s/oyfrkhuyqb...nTomb.zip?dl=0

    Hope you enjoy!

    I figured I'd start a thread for anyone who has any issues with my mission It was such a treat to put this together for all of you; hope you all enjoy it! I also welcome any constructive feedback. I'm new at this (and, I gather, somewhat outclassed by my competitors ), but I really want to improve my skills for my next go around.

    Big thanks to Brethren for hosting the competition (and motivating me to actually finish a mission for once!) as well as my wonderful beta testers, without whom this would not have been possible: Gloria Creep, marbleman, john9818a, nightshifter and Cardia.

    Here's what you might want to know, from the readme file, before starting the mission:

    This mission is intended to be played with HDMOD. It's not required, but highly recommended.


    STORY:


    In the years following the collapse of the Precursors, a young lad named Bertrand, of unsurpassed wit, quickly ascended the ranks of the newly founded Hammerite Order. In his youth, Bertrand used his keen intellect to create great inventions, propelling a new age of scientific enlightenment. It was Bertrand who discovered the means of creating hammers out of metal, rather than stone. And it was Bertrand's innovations in architecture and design that allowed the Hammerites to build towering cathedrals, the likes of which the world had never seen. It wasn't long before Bertrand amassed a great deal of power and wealth.

    But Bertrand became bored. As with most great minds, he yearned for stimulation. For inspiration. For challenge. Over the years, he withdrew from his practical endeavors, stopped inventing, and began to pursue increasingly abstract ideas. He became obsessed with the concept of self-reference. Quite by accident, his study of self-reference led him to a startling discovery: the inconsistency of logic itself.

    Of all the qualities Hammerites hold dear, logic, order and consistency top the list. But Bertrand, scoundrel as he was, decided to thumb his nose at Hammerite sensibilities and publish his work. His findings provoked immediate ire from the Hammerite Order, who took Bertrand's demonstration of logical inconsistency as heresy of the highest degree.

    Sensing his fate, Bertrand fled with all his most prized possessions, and sequestered himself inside a nearby tomb. To ensure his safety, he barricaded himself inside the High Priest's mausoleum, using a cleverly devised system of locked gates to prevent access to any but the most keen of mind. It is said that that he designed the gates to open only to those who truly understood-- and appreciated-- his life's work. Despite numerous attempts, no one has ever made it past even a single gate. As he neared the end of his life, the story goes, Bertrand transferred his very essence into a large codex, where he awaits a worthy adventurer with whom to share his wisdom.

    Generations passed, and the tomb was lost to time. As The City developed, the Tomb was buried deep underground and forgotten, hidden under centuries of urbanization. It has been over 500 years since anyone has had any contact with the tomb at all---that is, until a pair of careless workmen blew a hole in the sewers, exposing-- and flooding-- the tomb's lowest level. Taffers! If this is indeed Bertrand's legendary tomb, it's bound to be full of some valuable trinkets. Bertrand's fabled Ouroboros of Self-Reference would be sure to fetch a hefty price tag. And I wouldn't mind taking a peek inside that Codex, myself... The entrance to the tomb has been cordoned off by City officials, but that won't be a problem for someone with my... skills... I better get in there and claim what's mine, before my competition catches wind...


    RECURRING THEMES:


    -Self-reference/general "meta-ness"
    -"Seussian" rhyme and cadence
    -Juxtaposition of Hammerite and pagan symbolism (Bertrand's apostasy)

    NOTES:


    -The mission is primarily puzzle based, with a bit of sneaking and some optional acrobatics.

    -Higher difficulty levels have a greater loot requirement, more enemies, more light sources, less starting gear and, importantly: FEWER HINTS. Play on expert if you don't want any extra help, and don't mind a bit more challenge! If you get frustrated playing on expert, trying a lower difficulty level may help.

    -The puzzles in this mission are somewhat different from standard Thief puzzles. You'll need to think outside the box. If you can't figure out some of the puzzles, in-game assistance is available---but it doesn't come free YOU DO NOT NEED TO USE THE HINTS TO BEAT THIS LEVEL, but they can help.


    KNOWN ISSUES:


    -It is possible to render the mission unbeatable, but it would take some doing. Unless you have (a) exhausted all of your rope arrows; or (b) closed a gate and slipped through while it was closing (c'mon, really?), you should be fine.

    EDIT: Preview video, courtesy of cvl00101: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O10Wakt9no4
    Last edited by trefoilknot; 16th Dec 2017 at 18:25.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    congratulations on the release !

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    can i get some help on gate 1/3 where is focal point in projection room? ,and have no idea how to get into room with crack in floor,i got rope arrows but cant see what i am suppost to hit

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Sure, downwinder, happy to help!

    Get right up close to the gate, into the room with the cracked floor. Shoot through the gate into the middle beam, so that the rope extends down through the cracked floor.

    There's a scroll in there to help with the projection room.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2008
    Location: Iceland
    I enjoyed this mission immensely. It doesn't try to do many things, but what it does try, it does well.

    I appreciated the fact that there's in-built help in-game, but I quickly found a work-around to abuse it... but considering the meta-ness of the work-around, I guess it's "fair play" as far as this FM is considered?

    The last puzzle did stump me, I just brute-forced my way through it. Looking back though, I wonder... is it asking about the number of lights in the number itself?

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to seeing what you release next. Keep up the good work!

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    So happy you enjoyed it! I think your second sentence summarizes exactly what I was going for

    Yes, the in-game help is easily abused----I actually almost nerfed the abusive tactic by accident, by making the optional objective unachievable, if the player loaded a saved game (http://ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148227). I debated whether to turn the bug into a feature-- specifically to deal with this exploit-- but ultimately decided I'd rather not annoy players excessively with my first release So I found a workaround instead haha.

    And RE: the last puzzle, that's exactly right. "How many lights are lit" and "what fraction of the lights are lit" do indeed refer to the numbers themselves. Was trying to make it as 'meta' as possible. Does it make sense in retrospect?

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i got lucky with projection room,it just hit me where to stand now i see code,now to figure out lever puzzle for gate 3?
    Last edited by downwinder; 15th Sep 2017 at 22:50.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2008
    Location: Iceland
    trefoilknot: Yes it does. Thank you.

    downwinder: Look at the layout of the levers. Have you seen that exact layout elsewhere?

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i must have missed it ,going back to see

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    The in-game assistance will help quite a bit with the 3rd gate

    But first, did you walk through gates 1 and 2? There's a floor plaque just past the 3rd gate you should read if you haven't already.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    ok mission complete 2940/3260 loot,i just had to strong arm the lever puzzle even though i had scroll about pillars,wasent sure what up or down was,also strong armed the book at ever end,and the gate 2 puzzle i just strong armed,the virtue puzzle i figured out

    over all i enjoyed missions alot,thank you for making it ,and i hope to see more missions from you in future

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    Congratulations on your first FM - really enjoyed your mission trefoilknot. The puzzles were great and very well done. I'm not always a fan of puzzles if things are too cryptic, but here I found the clues well written and the visuals provided clicked (eventually!) for my way of seeing things. The hint-at-a-price statues - great idea.

    The final puzzle did have me stumped - I had to use (maybe cheat... oops... ) the hint statue and, even then, it was down to "random button pushing guesswork" in the end. However, this didn't detract from me enjoying the mission, and I really look forward to your "next go around"

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Pleased you enjoyed it!

    RE: the last puzzle, was it clear what the goal was (I.e. Did it make sense?), but was just a smidge on the hard side? Or did you feel uncertain about what it was you were trying to accomplish?

    That's 3/3 posters who struggled with that one, so I want to think about what refinements might be in order

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    @trefoilknot - all of them! I simply didn't know what lights you were referring to, or what you meant by light. It was also late at night, so my brain was sleepy - I couldn't fathom out what it meant at all, even after frobbing the statue for hints. Had me stumped!

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    After solving it, did it make sense why the solution worked?

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    After solving it, did it make sense why the solution worked?
    I never solved it - I just pressed buttons until open sesame! Pot luck in the random button pushing So, no it never made sense to me - even when the correct things were entered!

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Thanks for the feedback! I'll think about a better way to convey the info. In the meantime, I can PM you an explanation

    Again, super happy you enjoyed my mission!

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: UK
    An explanation would be great - thank you

  19. #19
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2014
    I could need that explanation too.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    I'll give a broad hint, that should hopefully help others who may struggle:


    The "lights" refer to the digital clock-style LED's within the boxes.
    So, for example, In the small box, 4, 5 and 6 are the valid answers, because a 4 requires four lights, a 5 requires five lights, and a 6 requires six lights:

    |_|
    ...|
    ._
    |_
    ._|

    ._
    |_
    |_|

    Thus, 4, 5 and 6 would all accurately answer the question "In this smaller box, how many lights are lit?"

    Other answers, like for instance, 2, would not. Because five lights would be on, which would not match the value of the answer.


    Hope that helps! PM me if you need more clarity

    P.S. Yes, this final puzzle was intended to be quite challenging, hence why it was made optional. Still, I'm open to the possibility that I overshot hah

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    To add to what Trefoilknot posted about "lights"The term "lights" is an analogous term. For a visual of "lights" Google "led segments."

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Full on Kevel's mom
    Great work! This is the first time in a while I've actually had to use my in-game notes and I very much enjoyed doing so!
    I think my favorite puzzle was the pillar one.

    Really looking forward to your next mission!

  23. #23
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2014
    Which lights, which boxes?

    I have no idea what you're talking about.

  24. #24
    Cant figure out the pillar puzzle.

    I have written down what each pillar is and the order they are in. I am trying every combination according to the hint and nothing.
    Last edited by ciscokidd73; 16th Sep 2017 at 15:33.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Atropos read my previous post about the lights.

    The boxes are drawn on the wall where the digits are placed. Notice that one box is inside the other.

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