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Thread: Exposing Sexual Harassment...

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    On one singular occasion by 1 person. I'd not even put him on the same level as half the people pointed out lately. And thats even if he's proven guilty.

    Innocent before being proven guilty remember. If your not a believer of that then don't watch the news as you'll end up hating a bunch of people that are later proven innocent.

    Happened to Cliff Richard. Community presumed him guilty long before he was proven innocent.

    In Spacey's case, he said he had no memory of it, but that if it had happened then he's truly sorry to the guy. Thats enough for me.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    On one singular occasion by 1 person. I'd not even put him on the same level as half the people pointed out lately. And thats even if he's proven guilty.

    Innocent before being proven guilty remember. If your not a believer of that then don't watch the news as you'll end up hating a bunch of people that are later proven innocent.

    Happened to Cliff Richard. Community presumed him guilty long before he was proven innocent.

    In Spacey's case, he said he had no memory of it, but that if it had happened then he's truly sorry to the guy. Thats enough for me.
    Sounds pretty reasonable.

    Though what is constituted as heavy harassment?

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    The latest news is that more people came forward re: Kevin Spacey, and that he was a real maniac on the set of House of Cards, frequently harassing younger male actors.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2008
    Location: in your second eyelids
    Yeah but what is harassment in America? I keep hearing that but it's unclear, because such things aren't really problems where I live. So I'm just curious if there's a significantly behvaior or if people there are little pussies that can't handle anything anymore. Intuition tells me it's a mix of both, but I wanna see for sure.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    So... Spacey grabs Richard Dreyfuss sons crotch, while... Richard Dreyfuss is right there?!

    This is getting good, cant wait.



    Sorry for robot voice but this is "breaking news".

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    Yeah but what is harassment in America? I keep hearing that but it's unclear, because such things aren't really problems where I live. So I'm just curious if there's a significantly behavior or if people there are little pussies that can't handle anything anymore. Intuition tells me it's a mix of both, but I wanna see for sure.
    In our PC world these days this is more truer now than ever. Now you can be accused of sexual harassment in the workplace just for asking someone out, or for starring at a hot girl at work. Sucks honestly.

  7. #32
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    What we have here can be summed up as a severe, widespread problem, with an ensuing gross overreaction in response. It's like a microcosm of all things wrong with America circa 2017.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2010
    Location: A Former Orange Grove
    From corporate training, I have been taught that sexual harassment can be as simple as commenting upon someone's clothes in a personal way. "You look great in that dress," is inappropriate. "That dress is very nice," is acceptable. I find this rule to be too harsh and very PC.

    However, what we are talking about here with Weinstein and others is far more intense. It is alleged that Harvey would whip out his cock, jack off, then jizz in front of women. Some have said he would block the door and demand a blow job. He'd do all sort of intimidating things. This is not about people being pussies, it's about real fuck-tards.

    Are there some men and women falsely claiming harassment just to get on the bandwagon and collect $$$? Sure, but I would bet the majority are telling the truth. For me, and it seems for many people commenting on articles, the "victims" waiting 10 years or more to report these crimes is bullshit. I'm reading nothing but disgust with nearly all actors from a lot of people. As Feldman said, thousands of people have known for decades what goes on at Hollyweird parties, dressing rooms, trailers, etc. The few that have spoken up in the past either are bribed, fired, or intimidated in some way.

    Has the pendulum of victimhood swung too far? Probably yes, but that does not excuse these overt and serious acts. A reasonable person would find the accusations against Harvey W pretty nasty. A reasonable person would not consider asking out your co-worker to be harassment, but it would be if done repeatedly for months on end. Just my 2 1/2 cents.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Sexual harassment is not well defined, but from what I understand, in the eyes of the law, it is generally either persistent behaviour or serious misconduct, including sexual abuse and assault in the worst cases. It's not just some innocuous comment interpreted the wrong way or a risquée joke told at an office party or asking your coworker out that one time.

    When companies do their trainings, of course they want to be in the safe zone as much as possible, so all the examples are those that might possibly cause the company any liability in the worst case scenario.

    That said, even if something isn't harassment, if you make your coworker uncomfortable with your behaviour, you're still an asshole.

  10. #35
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by bjack View Post
    From corporate training, I have been taught that sexual harassment can be as simple as commenting upon someone's clothes in a personal way. "You look great in that dress," is inappropriate. "That dress is very nice," is acceptable. I find this rule to be too harsh and very PC.
    I don't see that as harassment. But I see commenting on what someone looks like as unnecessary and possibly demeaning unless invited to pass comment. Reading your post, I was immediately taken back to years of listening to Wimbledon tennis commentators remarking on what the women players were wearing. They didn't comment on what men were wearing. For the men they discussed their tennis, for the women they discussed their clothing. This rarely happens now and I think it's a huge improvement in attitude. The commentators were not trying to be patronising, they just didn't know any better. There is no reason to distinguish between the sexes in this way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    That said, even if something isn't harassment, if you make your coworker uncomfortable with your behaviour, you're still an asshole.
    Exactly.

    Whatever happened to treating all people with equal courtesy.

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Looks like this is more along the lines of what people are asking these days:


  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    It all just seems like people are overly sensitive these days and I wish something would be done about fixing it. It needs to be remembered that we're all human beings with natural in-built responses to situations. A really hot girl walks by and so you think "GOD DAMN" or something similar. Some might inadvertedly voice that.

    So whats the alternative? Make people into more or less robots via emotion suppressing medication (like in the movie "Equalibrium") ? That may sound extreme (as it is) but I don't see any other way around the fact that we all have our own in-built feelings and reactions to our environment. So either we all say to ourselves "things have REALLY gone abit too far with PC" and do something about it, or continue to move in the further and furthermore PC direction that we are heading.

    Now note that the above is just general talk. What that director did was completely wrong and is on the complete opposite side of the spectrum of what I was discussing.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    I dunno, man. Right now this whole "oversensitive" thing seems to me like a big, fat strawman. People weren't being oversensitive about Weinstein, or any of the other big examples going around. People that want to minimize the things that ARE happening like to foam about "oversensitivity" to distract from the real problems. I've been to standard corporate outsourced harassment training. Yearly. The examples used aren't oversensitivity at all, they're over-the-top unbelievable shite that actually happened.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    Well said, Pyrian.

    It would be nice to see more female TTLG'ers contributing in this thread, though.

    https://www.rainn.org/statistics/vic...exual-violence

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Right now this whole "oversensitive" thing seems to me like a big, fat strawman. People that want to minimize the things that ARE happening like to foam about "oversensitivity" to distract from the real problems.
    Pyrian, very well said. Im thinking the same.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    I dunno, man. Right now this whole "oversensitive" thing seems to me like a big, fat strawman.
    May I divert your attention to the start of the thread again? Because I think we're discussing different things here. We all understand that sexual violence is bad. But there's also that wide term harassment. And the discussion is about where that line starts.
    That's what people have different opinions about.

    Now this lady says that little things add up, but not what exactly. And that's the important part. Because this wave of harassment allegations might also be a chance for some people to force their prudish and intolerant view onto others. https://www.vice.com/en_uk/article/n...mophobic-trash

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    And then we have GMD. He's a person lots of us have to deal with in their daily lives and I think I'll have to break the silence on twitter about this situation. We collectively have been holding back way too long.
    Last edited by Kolya; 6th Nov 2017 at 15:23.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    Because I think we're discussing different things here.
    Well, yeah. That's part of my point. The topic of "excessive prudishness" is a distraction. My suspicion is that it's a way to push back against the movement away from allowing sexual harassment. But nobody wants to be on the record as pro-harassment, so they find another way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    That's what people have different opinions about.
    Maybe. I'm not actually seeing any reasoned disagreement on the subject, though. Instead we get people pushing ridiculous strawman arguments like the assertion that politely asking a coworker for a date once constitutes sexual harassment. Nobody's here arguing for that position.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    It's not just a distraction. Did you read the vice article I posted?

    A "movement away from allowing sexual harassment" is nonsense, because sexual harassment is already disallowed (unless we're talking about Egypt, then you have my sword). So instead we're clearly talking about what is included in the definition of harassment then. Stop calling that a strawman.
    I'm sure in your mind every social situation between humans is easily divisible into harassment/non-harassment, but in reality interpretations tend to differ a lot. Not a strawman. People actually are different and experience the same situation in very different ways.

    You say that "nobody wants to be on the record as pro-harassment" and thereby imply that anyone actually is pro-harassment and just hides it. To which I call bullshit. No one is pro-harassment, not here nor anywhere else. But people have different ideas of what constitutes harassment. So either you're willing to talk about these definitions or you prefer to indulge in a black and white picture.

    And maybe when we get to talk about what constitutes what, we can also talk about the factors that influence such interpretations, learn to see the other side, stop putting people into uncomfortable situations and learn to tell them if they do. Wouldn't that be something.

  22. #47
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    No one is pro-harassment, not here nor anywhere else.
    I've seen the internet. I can imagine that there are quite a few people out there who are pro-harassment. Also, they're all probably into Crossfit too.

    You can't say there's no such thing as irredeemable people when we're in the midst of political uprising involving irredeemable people fighting for their right to be irredeemable.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    I can easily imagine some people would like to appear evil. Because they've learned that's how they are seen anyway. So they embrace that image the same way metalheads once did. Must be pretty fun, except for the harm their fun causes.
    Gamergate would be an example of such people.

    But I think what's on debate here is more of the mundane everyday Mad Men behaviour. The boss that pats the secretary's ass and calls her sugartits. For some reason that gets people more off than real crimes. Perhaps because it's more relatable. Haven't we all felt humiliated at our job at some point? I know I have.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    This thread isnt about defining any lines, it merely documents the ongoing exposing of these evil acts. I dont think we have seen the last of it!

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    I think its great to discuss the on-going debate on what is and isn't harrassment.

    One persons acceptable behavior is anothers terrible/unacceptable. All of it is individually based, some of it cultural and some are religion based. And then some are just on the over-sensitive based.

    Over here in Australia, a year ago (if I remember right) and at the end of a televised cricket match between Australia and Zimbabwe. An attractive female news reporter was interviewing the captain of Zimbabwe at the end of which the captain on camera asked out the reporter. She was completely shocked and acted like he'd crossed the line. Talk after in the media was that that was sexual harrassment and that he should be sacked, whilst on the opposite end others argued that this was just political correctness gone crazy.



    I considered it harmless. Have a watch and lets see which side your on.

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