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Thread: Exposing Sexual Harassment...

  1. #126
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    If you believe my posts will give you an ulcer, it's not my responsibility to stop posting.
    I grew up in Soviet Russia. I've seen much worse in real life than posts on the internet and never got any ulcers. Also, I never suggested you should stop posting. Just because I'm responding to your posts doesn't mean I want you to stop posting.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    My comparison with prostitution was based on the premise that actresses consented with sex in order to gain better career prospects. I think that's pretty clear from the text.
    Coercion is not consent. You make it sound as if the women were exploiting Weinstein, not vice versa.

  2. #127
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Dia View Post
    Hey Vas! How ya doin'? Been missin' you, my friend!!
    Hi sweetie

    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    I know it's hard to wrap your head around the idea that someone would blow a stranger for money, fame, wealth and fortune.
    It seems you have hard time wrapping your head around the difference between offering sex to gain something and having sex with the boss being a requirement for a job.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Which is a massive difference. Women have used flirtation and other methods to gain things since the beginning of time.

  4. #129
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Well yeah, but there's a fine line between flirting for profit and gain, and holding a woman in a corner of a room while you make eye contact and furiously masturbate under threat of loss of livelihood.

    Right now, it seems we're talking more the latter, less the former.

  5. #130
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Well one is consensual and the other is not. So its apples and oranges to each other.

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    I grew up in Soviet Russia. I've seen much worse in real life than posts on the internet and never got any ulcers. Also, I never suggested you should stop posting. Just because I'm responding to your posts doesn't mean I want you to stop posting.
    Congrats, I grew up in Eastern Germany. I guess we saw similar things. Anyway, the thing about ulcers was merely an example of my previous point in that post. If A believes contrary to facts that B's actions could adversely affect A, then B isn't liable to stop his actions. If you believe me wearing a tophat insults your tophat wearing god/will bring forth a thermal apocalypse/kills all the bees, then I still don't have to take it off.
    Again, this was just an example.

    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    You make it sound as if the women were exploiting Weinstein, not vice versa.
    I really don't think you can read this from my post. I suggested that it may have been more of a deal. An illicit one certainly, but nevertheless. I'm no fan of Weinstein nor any proven perpetrator of harassment or abuse. But I find the obvious demonization and idolization in the recent cases a bit much.

  7. #132
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I'm not getting your point. Are you seriously suggesting that if someone lies about their, say, connections in the industry, then it's the victim's fault for believing them? Again, it's not what power Weinstein actually had, and he had a lot, but what the victims believed at the moment.

    I guess you have never been bullied. Half of it is about intimidation and implied threat, not about actual real power.

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    The Trump groping stuff was a pack of lies designed by the Hilary campaign to derail him. He denied it, enough of a percentage of people believed him more than the women and it all just vanished. I'm surprised that he didn't sue the women over it. False allegations are serious business.
    You're joking, right? I don't know you well enough to know if you're being sarcastic or not. If not, then I strongly suggest you click on the following link and watch the video before reading the article/transcript. No way in hell that was fake. P.S. Hint: HRC had nothing to do with it.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/08/u...ranscript.html

  9. #134
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    I'm not getting your point. Are you seriously suggesting that if someone lies about their, say, connections in the industry, then it's the victim's fault for believing them?
    No. I explicitly said before that it would matter what the actress believed if Weinstein convinced her he could negatively affect her career.

  10. #135
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    I think it's not a big deal, because it really isn't. It's a strange experience, but if that's going to traumatize you, then perhaps life just isn't your cup of tea.
    It really is a big deal though.

    You're clearly lacking empathy. This could be a very traumatising event. It's so invasive and when you're physically weaker you might worry that it'll become something else.

    You've marked yourself with this one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Thor View Post
    I get that. I'm just a little sad that nobody cares that Louie's career might be ruined over something like that.
    He's abused his position very badly. I like his humour but I don't care if he goes down over this.

    Dia - I suggest blocking robthom. He's clueless. Probably best to block Thor too.

  11. #136
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Absolutely it is a big deal.

    There's a lot of stuff going on at the moment about Roy Moore (something to do with an election in Alabama). The most relevant accuser was discovered by the Washington Post and persuaded to go on the record about her experience. There are others who were also found but not under age. Many Alabamians who support him don't believe the stories because it's so close to an election. Some say that it doesn't matter if he had a sexual encounter with a 14-year-old, they'll still vote for him. She is not being believed by some people.

    Not being believed and the fallout from an accusation is one reason she didn't come forward until persuaded to. Not being believed is a primary reason for not speaking out.

    An interesting article I read today on the BBC website: Was there really a time sexual harassment was ‘acceptable’?

    It has been said that attitudes towards sexual harassment have changed in recent years. But research into the experiences of women in government suggests it is the expectation they will put up with it that has shifted.

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Near Brisbane, Australia
    Women: "I'm really upset because I'm trying to get ahead in my career like everyone else, but the people I speak to are asking me to be a prostitute instead."

    Bystander: "Well if you said no, then what are you complaining about? If you said yes, you clearly are a prostitute so again what is the problem here?"

    Women: "Well firstly, I just wanted to be treated like a normal person, is that so hard to understand? Secondly, I'm not sure how far this is going to go or whether I should be afraid or not. Finally, I'm now wondering how to warn other women without retaliation."

    Bystander: "You clearly can't cope with the simplest problems in life! By the way, I can't watch Louie CK anymore because of people like you, so what about me?!?"



    What. The. Fuck.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Vertigo, DragonSand, Xeen
    When you think about an individual who is born, grows up with a dream of acting, pursues this dream, gets to the moment when this dream is about to come true, and they are in one life changing moment made aware of the true nature of this "dream".

    What. Do. You. Do. Now.

  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    The funny one is when you have a a work place where a few female stuff use their good looks + flirtation + dress sexy on purpose to get things, and then the other female staff get annoyed at those other women and demand for uniform clothes standards.

    I've seen it happen in a few places that I've worked.

    Now of course, everyone should be treated equally, I completely support that, but then introducing clothes standards that are often super strict makes for a very non-fun work environment. In one such environment, I got sent home just for wearing runners rather than the black shoe requirement. All things in moderation I say.

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    No. I explicitly said before that it would matter what the actress believed if Weinstein convinced her he could negatively affect her career.
    Then I'm still not sure what you're actually getting at. If they believed Weinstein could affect their career, the issue is still that they were coerced into things, not whether it was a belief based on false premises or not. If a boss in a company pressures an employee to have sex with them, it doesn't matter whether the employee falsely believes that they have the power to fire them or promote them.

    Anyway, it's a moot point, since Weinstein was undoubtedly a very powerful movie mogul and had actual power in the industry. And the issue here is that women were (mis)led into situations where they didn't want to be and threatened and molested and worse.

  16. #141
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Chade's nutshell is excellent.

    Quote Originally Posted by icemann View Post
    The funny one is when you have a a work place where a few female stuff use their good looks + flirtation + dress sexy on purpose to get things, and then the other female staff get annoyed at those other women and demand for uniform clothes standards.
    Umm, what does this have to do with anything in this topic?

  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Quote Originally Posted by Chade View Post
    Women: "I'm really upset because I'm trying to get ahead in my career
    A career that for 95% of women only exists as long as they are young and sexy and willing to show that. And that's not because of Harvey Weinstein, but because of you and me and everyone.
    The very same people who now act like a crazed mob and cannot believe such blatant sexism exists.
    Don't you agree that this is a bit hypocritical?

  18. #143
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    ^ Yet somehow all that doesn't make it allright to sexually assault the actresses, wannabe or not. Or even ask them to fuck the boss to get a job.

    Or does it?

  19. #144
    Administrator
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: above the clouds
    What Chade said was what I might have said but couldn't pull the words together.

    I also think the question of women using "feminine wiles" as a small amount of leverage is dwarfed by the power advantage of men generally.

    Also as Vas says, the state of entertainment being obsessed with women of certain attractiveness standards doesn't really have any relation to the rightness of women being pressured for sexual favours. It's just a milder repetition of the "she was asking for it" response to a woman dressed sexily getting raped. At least I think it's along those lines. She's trying to be sexy to get the job so she shouldn't make a fuss about being treated like a prostitute?

    Is that the sort of thing I'm hearing? I'm happy to be corrected.

  20. #145
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Actually this thread seems to degenerate towards the good ol' biblical misogyny. If she wants to look nice, she's clearly vain, and vanity is a sin, so it's only appropriate she's somehow punished for it.

  21. #146
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Near Brisbane, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Kolya View Post
    Don't you agree that this is a bit hypocritical?
    So first off, while I don't for a second dispute that acting is better for young women, a quick google search landed me here, which was pleasantly surprising: woman's career may peak at 30 but they do better for much longer than I had expected, declining only around 30% over the next 30 years.

    Anyway, no, I don't think it's hypocritical for someone to be outraged at sexual assault just because they are attracted to women, that's crazy. Also, you don't seem to care a whole lot about the outrage from the >50% of people on this planet who aren't interested in women.

  22. #147
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    Well I think this outrage is a bit like throwing a bible at your pimp. Don't pretend like only men watched Game of Thrones or whatever. You're just as complicit.

    And no Vasquez, that doesn't make it right to sexually assault anyone. But I never said that. What I said is that I had a problem with this demonization and idolization. A self-rightous mob that makes itself feel better.

  23. #148
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    So anyone who is appalled at the "casting couch" -culture is self-righteous sheep baaing with the mob and secretly masturbating while watching GoT? What a clever way to shut everyone up.

  24. #149
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Cologne
    TBH I'm getting a bit tired of you trying to put words into my mouth. Surely you have nicer things to do, sugartits.

  25. #150
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    Well, you're the one using the word "prostitution" in a thread about sexual harassment.

    In case the obvious needs to be said, I do realise how things like this can start an avalanche of accusations and some of them aren't true, which is just as wrong as harassing. But the Weinstein case certainly seems real, and it's clearly not the only one but one of many – and no wonder, since so surprisingly many seem to think it's rather normal to ask for sex in exchange for a job.
    Last edited by Vasquez; 13th Nov 2017 at 12:48.

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