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Thread: NEW T2 MISSION: "FTM Life" (13-Nov-2017) updated to v1.1

  1. #101
    You can use Gimp with dds plugin to export your textures. DXT1 compression is for images without alpha (or 1-bit alpha, like fences), DXT3 is for regular alpha channels, and DXT5 works better with gradients. Just bear in mind, all off those are lossy, with DXT1 being most aggressive, so always keep the originals somewhere.

  2. #102
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    You can use Gimp with dds plugin to export your textures. DXT1 compression is for images without alpha (or 1-bit alpha, like fences), DXT3 is for regular alpha channels, and DXT5 works better with gradients. Just bear in mind, all off those are lossy, with DXT1 being most aggressive, so always keep the originals somewhere.
    I have paint.net, photoshop and Irfanview, can i use any of those programs to convert it to DXT1?

  3. #103
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    The funny thing is that Batman Arkham Knight works better than my mission in my computer, and the game consists on a huge city filled with lots of information of high-resolution. So the problem here is NewDark that has to be upgraded.

  4. #104
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Well, sure, of course. But as I said before, NewDark isn't likely to get upgraded from a performance standpoint any more than it already has been. So that makes it incumbent on authors to make smart choices and optimize their missions to be more playable for the majority of players.

  5. #105
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    Well, sure, of course. But as I said before, NewDark isn't likely to get upgraded from a performance standpoint any more than it already has been. So that makes it incumbent on authors to make smart choices and optimize their missions to be more playable for the majority of players.
    reducing textures quality is not going to make much difference as i tested the mission with no terrain textures or object textures at all, add walls like Steve mentioned would definitely help alot, but im not seeing where i would have walls in both missions.

    With this mission i learned that i can't go so far. Next time the mission will less heavy.

  6. #106
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Pedro, what are the specs on your PC? I'm guessing they're extremely high. You have to remember that the majority of Thief fans here are not running on cutting edge hardware, and most are probably using computers that are 3-6 years old, sometimes even older. Mine was last updated in 2013.

  7. #107
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    reducing textures quality is not going to make much difference as i tested the mission with no terrain textures or object textures at all, add walls like Steve mentioned would definitely help alot, but im not seeing where i would have walls in both missions.

    With this mission i learned that i can't go so far. Next time the mission will less heavy.
    Your main problem is definitely the large field of view and you can correct it only by a blocking wall/building somewhere at the middle of the street. On half way on the streets you can see in any dirrection without problem, so if you want to block something you must cut across the street on half way with a tall building or something.

  9. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    I have paint.net, photoshop and Irfanview, can I use any of those programs to convert it to DXT1?
    There was Nvidia normalmap plugin for Photoshop as well. Gimp is free though.


    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    The funny thing is that Batman Arkham Knight works better than my mission in my computer, and the game consists on a huge city filled with lots of information of high-resolution. So the problem here is NewDark that has to be upgraded.
    You want a game from built on DirectX 6 to run like a game built on DirectX 11-12. That's insane. A lot has changed in last 17 years, and the number of objects that can be displayed on screen is much, much higher now. Even with NewDark and some DirectX 9 capabilities, the engine is still DX6-based. You can't expect anyone, and especially a group of hobbyists and enthusiasts, to magically upgrade such old technology for your convenience. As I said earlier, either switch to Unreal 4 or Unity, or respect limitations of 17-year-old engine. Adopting high performance standard while testing would be a good first step. It's pretty common approach to assume that if your engine is years old and you have framerate drops below 60 fps on modern hardware, it's because you're pushing the engine too far, not because the hardware is not good enough.

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    Pedro, what are the specs on your PC? I'm guessing they're extremely high. You have to remember that the majority of Thief fans here are not running on cutting edge hardware, and most are probably using computers that are 3-6 years old, sometimes even older. Mine was last updated in 2013.
    Here's my specs:



    I have a Geforce GTX 760

    the laggy moments are very few and not very unpleasant.

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensut View Post
    Your main problem is definitely the large field of view and you can correct it only by a blocking wall/building somewhere at the middle of the street. On half way on the streets you can see in any dirrection without problem, so if you want to block something you must cut across the street on half way with a tall building or something.
    Yes i know, i thought on that, maybe building medieval walls, but then it would destroy a bit the great views and i would have to find a place where i could place a wall in between the houses.

  12. #112
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Thank you Judith i will search for Gimp.

    No i don't want to switch to Unreal or Unity, im fine with Dromed, like i said i don't have much fps drops , its not perfect but its acceptable for me. Who knows within years people might play this mission with almost no low fps.

  13. #113
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Location: ���&#5671
    I'm sorry, I had to quit playing after 10min. Why ?

    - Why is there no music playing? I looked in the sound-files and I see there's some custom sounds files but they don't play (I bet that's because they're 10min long )
    - Why is there only ONE HOSTILE NPC? Is this fan-mission just a giant loot-finding quest?
    - Which bring me to the next topic, why is this damn loot count is so HIGH? Did you do that on purpose in the hope of making your fan-mission longer?!
    - The readables are terrible, I know it's very hard to write a good readable if you don't know how but making readables that painful to read deserve a newfound respect. I'd suggest trying to get rid of that audiolog syndrome by reading real letters and diaries and see how they do it. (Also naming a .str file talking about down syndrome "mongoloid.str" is kinda out of place for a FM themed with hum. interesting topics )
    - STOP. CRAMMING. PLACES. WITH. OBJECTS; this isn't a question of good or bad computer, this is a question of editor LIMITS. FPS drops are annoying and not fun. I'd suggest you to group these objects in a single obj, like R soul did with Of Stone and Glass Houses. It can certainly help.
    (Also, try to have some consistence with your objects! This looks like a second-life themed fan-mission!)

    I could point out bad point more and more (Door and fake doors having the same textures, pornhub noises when mantling which made me thankful for headphones &c.) but solving these main problems would be a great start.

    You showed in the past you're more than capable of creating fun fan-missions, why waste your talent on walking-simulators ?!

    Also, here's how you multiquote a message. Most of the messages in this thread are yours

    Last edited by Squadarofl; 15th Nov 2017 at 15:59.

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Batman works better on your PC because its engine is suited for rendering huge detailed spaces while the Dark Engine is not. No matter what you do. And no NewDark update will make it capable of doing that.

    The problem is not newDark that has to be updated. The problem is that you have to work within the limits of the engine.
    Last edited by marbleman; 15th Nov 2017 at 11:58.

  15. #115
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    I was surprised by the lack of background music in mission one, you always seem to put so much emphasis on good ambients in your missions Pedro.

  16. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post

    No i don't want to switch to Unreal or Unity, im fine with Dromed, like i said i don't have much fps drops , its not perfect but its acceptable for me. Who knows within years people might play this mission with almost no low fps.
    The thing is, they won't. It's engine limitations, the hardware won't scale up forever. Again, we're talking about DX6 and DX9. Look at the difference between DX11 and DX12 when it comes to number of objects drawn on screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4dsiq-I7g

    It's huge, and it's just one generation. That won't magically happen with NewDark. I have GTX 1060 with 6 GB of VRAM and I have 7 fps in the outdoor area of the first mission.

  17. #117
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Ireland/Poland
    Part of the dark engine limitation is the way it calculates visibility. Basically, every little detail made with brushes adds more cells (convex volume of space) and portals between them, which are used to calculate visibility of other cells. Even Quake engine, which came out a bit earlier IIRC, was smarter - they distinguish between terrain brushes and detail brushes. The latter add geometry, but do not take part into visibility/occlusion calculations. NewDark let's you go crazy with the polycount number, which is fine, but to a certain degree only, because it really can't handle it from other aspects.

    As for the mission - I gave it a shot because of the uniqueness of the setting, but couldn't really complete it. I don't think this engine holds up well when it comes to day-time missions - all lighting is flat. Interiors look like a 'diffuse texture pass' only. There's no lights to cause any variety in light/shadow areas of objects. Also modern setting cannot be really represented well with this engine due to very limited shader capabilities. The variety and complexity of materials in the surrounding world is so vast, which you can't really achieve with mere diffuse pass and sometimes a simplistic transparency. this applies to all the cars, mirrors and other shining surfaces. But also rough ones, foliage etc..

    Also being truthful to the the real-world setting makes the level layout plain simple. There's no tension in the exploration of the level. You can get from any point anywhere in a few jumps over the wall. And the fact that everyone ignores you or is very forgiving doesn't make the gameplay any more interesting. This game really lacks a challenge.

    I found the readables in a way interesting, although quite mundane. I don't know if this reflects your view on a portuguese society? And I was confused as to what to think about the item the the character found in some dirty garage toolbox - a pipe facilitating urinating or something like that - basically I couldn't identify with the main character, as I thought what she was doing was kind of ridiculous. I think trying to save the world would be a better option...

    I do however admire the effort and your perseverance in getting these FMs done. But relying on a unique setting only in a wrongly chosen engine is not really enough.

    P.S. and yes - I agree with Squadarofl - the mantling sound was making me very weary of my wife hearing me playing. "Don't worry, it's not what you think - it's just a game..."

  18. #118
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2015
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensut View Post
    Your main problem is definitely the large field of view and you can correct it only by a blocking wall/building somewhere at the middle of the street. On half way on the streets you can see in any dirrection without problem, so if you want to block something you must cut across the street on half way with a tall building or something.
    I make the same mistake in Heart of Gems, it's true that the old engine is still old and new Dark makes the FM more interesting in some points. My old FMs are very small, because I have trouble with the limit, and now there is new dark and the things have change.

    I haven't played this FM but I think every Author have his own style to build FMs, and I like it. Yes it is not a thief FM like Broken Triad or Endless Rain, but it is a FM from a Author who spend lots of free Time for the taffers here. And for free we don't earn money or every thing. Look at me I am 26 years with a 1 year old daughter and a sick wife, and I creating FMs in my free time for the fans.

    Pedro, I like your other FMs. Maybe we can make together a good classic thief FM.

  19. #119
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Brethren View Post
    I was surprised by the lack of background music in mission one, you always seem to put so much emphasis on good ambients in your missions Pedro.
    Off course it has music , but some players report that the ambient music does not play , i always do missions for music not otherwise, above all its important that this mission be experience with music, the areas can only be felt better with music otherwise its just exploring an empty atmosphere.

    Squadarofl those comments coming from you do not surprise me as you always had a negative posture towards me, and your post is clearly your depreciation towards my person, please do not play my missions and do not address me the word to me ever again (J'en ai marre de toi et tes attacks) it's clear we don't get along you don't like me, and honestly i don't like you too now.

    PinkDot, well aren't you a unpleasant snob fellow who doesn't know how to have a polite attitude, firing me with that huge list of negative experiences. You think i did this mission for your highness ? well NO! I did it mainly for myself, im proud of what i did, its mainly for me, got it? and i share it because i know there's people who like my missions... so spare me of your comments , im not doing a mission for commercial reasons where i need to worry about what the public might enjoy or not enjoy. Oh your highness is unsatisfied with this and that and that and also that... and Ridiculous? it's you who is ridiculous and your arrogant posture. youd be better not to play my missions again, or the transparency and reflections of the textures might not be of enough high quality for your highness.
    Last edited by nickie; 15th Nov 2017 at 17:03. Reason: No profanity allowed

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    The thing is, they won't. It's engine limitations, the hardware won't scale up forever. Again, we're talking about DX6 and DX9. Look at the difference between DX11 and DX12 when it comes to number of objects drawn on screen: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sc4dsiq-I7g

    It's huge, and it's just one generation. That won't magically happen with NewDark. I have GTX 1060 with 6 GB of VRAM and I have 7 fps in the outdoor area of the first mission.
    Judith please im getting tired of this conversation, i told i was satisfied with what i have. Its very unlikely that i will do changes.

  21. #121
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: France (Saint-Gobain)
    Quote Originally Posted by -Terra- View Post
    I make the same mistake in Heart of Gems, it's true that the old engine is still old and new Dark makes the FM more interesting in some points. My old FMs are very small, because I have trouble with the limit, and now there is new dark and the things have change.

    I haven't played this FM but I think every Author have his own style to build FMs, and I like it. Yes it is not a thief FM like Broken Triad or Endless Rain, but it is a FM from a Author who spend lots of free Time for the taffers here. And for free we don't earn money or every thing. Look at me I am 26 years with a 1 year old daughter and a sick wife, and I creating FMs in my free time for the fans.

    Pedro, I like your other FMs. Maybe we can make together a good classic thief FM.
    Thank you Terra, sure id love to team up with you on a project, its been along time since i last made a mission in team with Darthslair, i miss that Author, one of the best Friends i had in this community, sadly i fear he lost his eyesight, therefore his long absence in this Forum.

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2011
    Location: ���&#5671
    What's up with you bro?!

  23. #123
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Pedro, the point of the comments by me, Judith and PinkDot isn't so much to suggest you make changes to this mission, it's so you understand how to avoid these things in the future by using good design principles to keep your missions performing within the limitations of the engine.

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    If you made it mostly for yourself, why do you get so angry when somebody doesn't like it?

  25. #125
    AKA H3H3
    Registered: Aug 2016
    Location: My mum's basement
    Quote Originally Posted by Cardia View Post
    im not doing a mission for commercial reasons where i need to worry about what the public might enjoy or not enjoy.
    If that's what you think, then why did you have to go out of your way to let us know that a real FtM youtuber approved your mission in the readme?

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