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Thread: Guilty Until Proven Innocent

  1. #201
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Tocky View Post
    Well hell, that beats my tuba.
    It's more discrete.

  2. #202
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    And more discreet.

  3. #203
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2005
    Location: Not Kansas
    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Taffer View Post
    The true crime of grabbing a single tit is that the other goes unloved.
    Seriously Scots?

  4. #204
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Sarcasm ftw.

  5. #205
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    Quote Originally Posted by Scots Taffer View Post
    Also Kolya's alive? That's the best news of 2018.
    So far, yes. Someone has to defend the indefensible, in your absence.

  6. #206
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    *cue heroic theme song*

  7. #207
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Quote Originally Posted by Trance View Post
    And more discreet.
    So it is!

    On another note, English is a goddamn stupid language.

  8. #208
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    English is a goddamn stupid language.

  9. #209
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2000
    Location: sup
    Quote Originally Posted by Dia View Post
    Seriously Scots?
    I've been away for too long if anything I say is taken this seriously.

  10. #210
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    What's the best way to put this?

    Remember when you used to think everyone you know was normal? Then Donald Trump was elected president, and the next day, your neighbor comes over and tells you he proudly masturbates to pictures of the Holocaust?

    See, that's been happening everywhere as of late, and TTLG hasn't been exempt. There's been...drama.

  11. #211
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: In the flesh.
    Right. There was no drama before. Ah the sweet spring of youth when we all blushed at the sound of disagreement.

  12. #212
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Oh, there was drama before. Plenty of it. But recently? It's been weird, strange stuff.

  13. #213
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    It's like porn. You start with noticing your sister's all grown up and before you know you're into all kinds of weird, strange kinks.

  14. #214
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    I wouldn't know. I don't have a sister.

    Got plenty of cousins, though!

  15. #215
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    I thought this was interesting.

    http://variety.com/2018/biz/news/jam...ed-1202659239/

    You might too. Not the first bit, but the actress that did the nude scenes - her take on this is most interesting.

  16. #216
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    Quote Originally Posted by Renzatic View Post
    I wouldn't know. I don't have a sister.

    Got plenty of cousins, though!
    Point is, drama threads were always weird and strange to begin with.

    It sounds like that actress changed her mind and is trying to raise the price. But it's not clear what their relation was at the time of filming or even what "a film she made for him" means.
    Was she still his student? Was she financially dependent on him? Did he instruct her to go nude or was it artistic advice? What was he to her?
    Before these questions it's impossible to judge the situation.

  17. #217
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: I think I've been here
    This is quite interesting, including the reactions.
    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/01/09/m...-movement.html

    I'm beginning to think that the division line here also goes along a generational gap. After all sexuality is also a big part of self expression and is formed by the social mores of the times.
    It used to be normal that the hero of the film would forcibly kiss a woman because there was an expectation for men to "take women" who themselves were appointed the role of a sexual gatekeeper.
    And that were their roles, whether men felt comfortable with this aggressive act or women actually wanted sex.
    The older generation may fear this sort of roleplay to vanish and they themselves hence to be robbed of their sexual self expression and identity. And to be marked as uncivilized in history.
    I don't think simply labeling this as "internalized misogyny" does justice to any of this.

  18. #218
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    I thought this was interesting.

    http://variety.com/2018/biz/news/jam...ed-1202659239/

    You might too. Not the first bit, but the actress that did the nude scenes - her take on this is most interesting.
    That's a very interesting one. So if your employed for a specific role which includes nude scenes, feel uncomfortable but don't make it known that you are and sign up for it and do the role and accept the pay, then later say you weren't alright with it and want compensation. Who is "right" and who is "wrong" in that scenario?

    My opinions that the wrong person would be the one that did not speak up, though it's a very grey area type thing.

    Taking anything sexual out the equation, if you go for a job and are told the details then and there of exactly what the job entails and you agree and do the job, then legally that would be waiving any sort of compensation related stuff would it not?

    If this had been a case of the nude stuff not being mentioned at all in the contract and then it being revealed only on the day of it or later just prior, then that would be a completely different story. Am I the only one in this opinion?

  19. #219
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    As Salma Hayek said in her #metoo story about the same kind of situation:

    https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...weinstein.html

    But why do so many of us, as female artists, have to go to war to tell our stories when we have so much to offer? Why do we have to fight tooth and nail to maintain our dignity?

    I think it is because we, as women, have been devalued artistically to an indecent state, to the point where the film industry stopped making an effort to find out what female audiences wanted to see and what stories we wanted to tell.

    According to a recent study, between 2007 and 2016, only 4 percent of directors were female and 80 percent of those got the chance to make only one film. In 2016, another study found, only 27 percent of words spoken in the biggest movies were spoken by women. And people wonder why you didn’t hear our voices sooner. I think the statistics are self-explanatory — our voices are not welcome.

    Until there is equality in our industry, with men and women having the same value in every aspect of it, our community will continue to be a fertile ground for predators.

    I am grateful for everyone who is listening to our experiences. I hope that adding my voice to the chorus of those who are finally speaking out will shed light on why it is so difficult, and why so many of us have waited so long. Men sexually harassed because they could. Women are talking today because, in this new era, we finally can.
    If you read her story, you can see that not everything that is contractual is necessarily consensual.

  20. #220
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    The catch 22 to that, is that if that is deemed not consensual then any job could theoretically result in claims from someone not being happy with the work they do.

  21. #221
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    And they are right to speak out. If the conditions of your job are terrible and you are being exploited, don't just take it. Even if it's just posting on Glassdoor.

  22. #222
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK
    From an article in The Times today:

    A group of 100 eminent Frenchwomen yesterday denounced the #Metoo movement as a puritan backlash that treats women as children and denies their sexual freedom.

    The actress Catherine Deneuve, 74, along with authors, journalists, psychiatrists and intellectuals — and Catherine Millet who wrote a bestseller about her own sex life — signed a manifesto in Le Monde deploring the flood of public accusations prompted by the Harvey Weinstein scandal in Hollywood. Men’s careers were being ruined when “their only wrong was touching a knee, stealing a kiss, talking of intimate matters at a professional dinner”, they wrote.

    “Far from helping women to become independent, this... in reality serves the interests of the enemies of sexual freedom, religious extremists, the worst reactionaries and those who believe in the name of Victorian morality that women are children with the faces of adults.”
    I haven't linked to The Times because that article might be behind a paywall (I'm a subscriber). However, there is a similar one from the BBC.

  23. #223
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    It is true that there is a puritanical bent to some of what you see from the recent empowerment movement. I've seen some people fly off the handle over the most inane things imaginable.

    But to me, #metoo is less about "He tried flirting with me, which I didn't appreciate because it stole my power as a woman of independence", and more "I was forced to watch an old man beat off in the corner of his office for half an hour for fear of losing my job." There are fine lines being crossed that previously went unremarked upon.

  24. #224
    Mistaken for a man
    Registered: Jun 2000
    Location: Helsinki, Finland
    ^^ WTF did I just read? I'm all for sexual freedom, but Weinstein and such didn't "only touch a knee, steal a kiss" etc. The imbalance of power and hints of having influence over the woman's career, the "boss factor", is far from two equal coworkers being in a similar situation (obviously touching the other sexually ain't cool in that case either, but at least you can tell him/her to keep their hands to themselves without having to worry about getting fired).

    For me, sexual freedom means empowerment, you get to choose who touches your knee or kisses you. For the victim who has no power or courage - for whatever reason - the situation is rather the opposite of being in charge of your own sexuality. Those people seem to be defending mainly men's sexual freedom to touch anyone they want whenever they want. I honestly can't understand how men abusing their position of power that way has anything to do with the obsolete morals that see women as children?

    (Scotty dear, same with balls.)

  25. #225
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Vasquez, if you're gonna go around grabbing random balls, you need to make sure not to just grab one. That'd hurt. You need to get both to equalize pressure.

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