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View Poll Results: Will Nightdive deliver the promised System Shock remake?

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  • Yes...and it will be true to the System Shock vision!

    2 28.57%
  • Yes...but it won't be true to the System Shock vision!

    3 42.86%
  • Hell No!

    2 28.57%
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Results 26 to 50 of 103

Thread: Nightdive Studios Takes a Dive!

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    From what I've read in the updates their going for a Deus Ex style, come up with your own solution to challenges. I don't see an issue at all with that.

    Some people may have had a problem with what was announced in the last update which was that you'd have the lizardman town as a quest hub with it branching off to levels which would be linear rather than persistent levels. I could see what that may annoy some, though I'm fine with it.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Pyrian View Post
    Yeah? What kind of gripes?
    Level design, too much focus on emergent gameplay, feats system, art style, parkour moves, too many large spaces, etc.

    Basically, the game is not enough like the original Ultima Underworld for some backers.

  3. #28
    PC Gamering Smartey Man
    I <3 consoles and gamepads

    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: New Zealand
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Well, that's unless EA or someone wants to overbid them.
    If EA cared so much about the System Shock rights then they would've renewed their trademark (or publishing rights or whatever) when it had lapsed and then pursued the actual IP which had been sitting in some insurance company's draws gathering dust for years.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Maybe EA didn't care as much to solve the mess with the rights back then when the situation was considered unsalvageable, but scooping up rights for a few famous game franchises when it's offered to them on a silver platter? That might interest them. They might even pick it up just in case.

    If the debacle with NOLF shows anything, it's that the big companies might not care about old franchises, but they sure care about someone else doing something with it.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    I'm kind of bitter about this. I know that game development frequently goes off the rails due to a lack of direction or over-ambition, but when you reach out to the fans and ask for donations to help you build something specific, I think you owe it to the fans to stick to what you promised. It seems like Nightdive had the ambition of becoming a new AAA game studio, and used the System Shock IP, fan base, and Kickstarter as a means to attract a publisher willing to put up an AAA budget.

  6. #31
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Agreed. I totally get that when you pledge via Kickstarter, you should be aware there's a chance you won't get your money back or the product you pledged towards. But when the developer uses the money to create something other than what they promised, there should be some kind of recourse for anyone who joined the campaign. Like some type of class action lawsuit, strictly to get a refund, not punitive damages.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: abertillery, wales
    Maybe another sad case of listening to the fans TOO much, I mean look at the team they had assembled, they would have made something of note...

    Not just another waste of million's; remaking a game that really doesn't need remaking and wiping out the memory of the original.

    I was playing their "remaster" and its clear that they did not get the whole horror lighting set up, its way to light and they game was never meant to be played like doom or whatever.
    I. for one was excited at a "new" retelling.

    But, I guess its all good, now we have Prey ...this and SS3 were always, kind of doomed to failure Imo.

    I mean what undertakings, re imagine the first classic and follow up the second classic game. Better off with the slew of "spiritual successors "
    Last edited by dylan barry; 22nd Feb 2018 at 18:30.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Yeah been there before.

    Backed Confederate Express, they took the money and used it to try and fund a completely different game. Went down well.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    It's not like Night Dive went on to make a completely different game, though. It's just a difference in what a "faithful reboot" means.

  10. #35
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    The original statement on the Kickstarter page mentioned the word "remake" which was sometime later changed to "reboot." Not a completely different game no, but that's still a fairly significant edit.

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Even remakes differ quite a bit in what they change, ranging from a simple remaster to a complete reimagining of the game and game mechanics.

    And really, it's not all that clear what should or shouldn't be be changed in a System Shock remake. Do you keep the original interface? Do you keep the combat mechanics that haven't really aged well? Do you keep the wireframe cyberspace? Do you keep the bleak corridors and rooms as they were or do you flesh them out with more detail (such as adding a reception area to the medical suite in the demo)?

    Yes, they went off the rails with things like limb dismemberment, but even if they scrap such superfluous mechanics, there's still a lot that has to be changed by necessity.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    There is a BIG difference between a remake and a reboot.

  13. #38
    Creating a remaster looks like a pretty clear goal, but it seems their egos and ambitions got in the way. I wonder how Bluepoint Games would approach this (they are pretty good at faithful remasters btw).

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Even the demo was already a lot more than just a simple remaster. And they said they were going to add areas and change some things around. That was pretty clear from the beginning.

    As for reboot/remake, the only difference is that reboots play more loosely with the source material -- they can change the plot, the characters, anything they like, really. Remakes, on the other hand, generally closely follow the original, but not always. The line between a remake and reboot is not necessarily all that easy to draw.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Location, Location
    "Reboot" in its current usage is mostly just a word you use if you want to take an existing property and make whatever you want, no matter how little resemblance it bears to the original, while relying on brand recognition to boost sales. It elicits nothing but revulsion from me when I see that word appear on promotional material or used by the official team, as I've found that quality reboots which capture the essence of the original are the exception rather than the rule. I think we might finally be in the waning days of Reboot Fever, which is a relief. I'm not hearing about a new terrible dredging-up of an old property every couple weeks; now it's every couple months or longer.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Qantas
    It was originally sold as a "System Shock Remaster". The best example of a remaster is Black Mesa. A System Shock remaster would never be as authentic as that, because the interface and controls and movement and shooting mechanics are so far out of date. I assumed they would rework the interface and mechanics. But I expected them to stick to the same basic gameplay, not turn it into an RPG or gore fest. Similarly, I expect a remaster to have the same setting, same plot, same levels, same weapons and puzzles, etc. The original level design hasn't aged well, so I wouldn't have minded if they updated it a bit, as long at they "feel" similar to the originals and you progress through the game the same way.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Well, if they said it was going to be a remaster, they simply didn't understand what a remaster is.

    And it's clearly something much more on the Kickstarter:

    A modern take on System Shock, a faithful reboot; it’s not Citadel Station as it was, but as you remember it. Many improvements, overhauls and changes are being implemented to capture the spirit of what the original game was trying to convey, and bring it to contemporary gamers.

    → Re-imagined enemies, weapons, and locations by original concept artist Robb Waters.
    → Terri Brosius reprises her role as SHODAN, and new VO will be recorded.
    → Brand new musical score composed by Jonathan Peros.
    → The user interface, game mechanics, enemies, and puzzles will be updated to reflect modern aesthetics and sensibilities, while maintaining the feel of the original.


    Scope Features

    → $900k Goal: Modern Inventory Management, Modern Controls, New Puzzles, Updated Faithful Levels, Game Difficulty Modes.
    → $1.7m Goal : Enemy limb dismemberment, More puzzles, Ammo types/weapon settings, Vending machines, Weapon upgrading, Hardcore mode (No respawning), Ironman mode (Only 1 savegame. If you die, the save is deleted)

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: May 2003
    Location: Sweden
    This demo represents the look and feel that we want to achieve with the final version we'll deliver to you, our backers.
    There's nothing to interpret or misunderstand there. They took money for that, then abandoned it to make something else. That's a dick move, and not quite comparable to other KS:s making a new game from scratch (which can be a lot more.. uh.. fluid between intent and final outcome).

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Most Kickstarters tend to provide a wealth of information not just with the initial campaign, but also in the later updates provided. This one did not.

    Right up until the hiatus imposed we knew next to nothing of what was happening other than concept art, which in itself did not reveal that much besides the look they were going for. Game mechanics wise, nothing at all was revealed or even lightly touched on.

    Compare that to nearly every other KS I've backed which provided in-depth info on intended game mechanics, story / background story, discussion of what areas of the game were being worked on, who was working on what with some details given on those people etc etc. We knew so little for so long. Night Dive has MUCH to learn from this. The only detailed update that I can recall was from the person doing the music. That gave some good info, and he provided samples of what he'd done, his inspirations etc etc.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2009
    Location: The Spiraling Sea
    Quote Originally Posted by Myagi View Post
    There's nothing to interpret or misunderstand there. They took money for that, then abandoned it to make something else. That's a dick move, and not quite comparable to other KS:s making a new game from scratch (which can be a lot more.. uh.. fluid between intent and final outcome).
    Yep.

    From Stephen Kick's own admission...

    In March of 2016, Nightdive Studios released our video of our vision of System Shock Remastered. Done in Unity it was an immediate hit with almost a half million views on YouTube. In June of 2016 we launched a Kickstarter campaign to make the vision into a reality. It was tremendously successful with over 21,000 backers contributing over $1.3 million to the campaign. We put together a development team and began working on the game. But along the way something happened.

    Maybe we were too successful. Maybe we lost our focus. The vision began to change. We moved from a Remaster to a completely new game.

  21. #46
    Southquarter.com/fms
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: The Akkala Highlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Well, if they said it was going to be a remaster, they simply didn't understand what a remaster is.
    And it's clearly something much more on the Kickstarter:
    The text you quoted is the revised version though, the original campaign specifically mentioned a remake, not a reboot.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Nevertheless, they were clear from the start that they are going to change some things. They never said that it's going to be exactly the same game. And the demo is proof of that. The look of the level, the mutants, the Sparq Beam gun... they were substantially different from the original. This is clearly not a remaster, and if it still has the original levels, the original characters and the original story, even with some changes, it's not really a complete reboot either.

  23. #48
    That's disappointing. I would have backed this if it had actually sounded like a System Shock remake, but all the talk of SS2-style elements told me that a faithful remake wasn't ever on the cards, so I elected to just wait and see what transpired. Still, I'd suspected that I'd ultimately want to buy it, so it's a shame to see things going so wayward. Here's hoping they can afford to get it back on track.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    I don't have a problem with them changing things, as long as it a) stays faithful to the original and b) stands on its own. I realise that these are conflicting goals, but the work has to form a cohesive whole. I don't even really mind things like dismembering and freezing the mutants. It's just that there are many more things that are more important to get right first. This is not Dead Space and things like these are not going to be part of the core gameplay.

    Other than that, the current look is a bit too clean for me -- IMO cyberpunk has to be somewhat offensive and in your face, with glaring neon lights and dirty metal surfaces. I think the Unity demo was pretty spot on for the most part. If they manage to get the aesthetics to be more similar to that, I'd be completely satisfied.

    Hopefully, they'll get their things together and get out of this endless pre-production phase they seem to be in. I mean, this thing was already in development at least 6 months before the Kickstarter and they still don't have a clear vision on how to proceed.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Yeah... From the updates it was looking like they'd taken the cyberpunk side completely out of it, and were more going for SS2's style.

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