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Thread: Rate Garrett's Equipment (T1/T2)

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2017

    Rate Garrett's Equipment (T1/T2)

    In this thread, we rate Garrett's weapons and other types of equipment. I suggest 1-5 scale, for the sake of simplicity.

    1. Sword - 4/5. Initially, I disliked sword-fighting system in Thief. But then I thought - hey, Garrett is not a soldier after all and sword is the last weapon he would choose when confronted with enemy. Therefore, fencing is intentionally difficult and challenging. On Expert level sword is useless against humans (in Thief 2 its use is almost non-existent), but I love killing monsters (chasing burricks and engaging in duels with haunts is exceptionally cool) with it.

    2. Blackjack - 5/5. No comment necessary. The simplest and yet the most effective tool.

    3. Broadhead arrow - 3/5. Not a big fan. I use them only to kill spiders and to switch levers. Occassionaly, I may dispatch a non-human enemy from the distance.

    4. Water arrow - 5/5. Great and very useful arrow. Dousing fire sources, killing fire elementals, destroying Mechanist bots and naturally blowing up undead (coupled with holy wateer).

    5. Moss arrow - 5/5. Another brilliant tool. Limited use, but it's crucial mostly in Hammerite/Mechanist missions with a lot of loud surfaces.

    6. Noisemaker arrow - 2/5. I don't find them useful. An experienced player can divert enemy's attention by other, less expensive means. Or just put some effort into sneaking.

    7. Fire arrow - 4/5. Great for slaughtering Garrett's non-human foes and disabling Mechanist cameras or bots. It has three major drawbacks - it's very loud upon explosion, you have to aim carefully to hit the target, and it lights up player's visibility gem.

    8. Gas arrow - 5/5. Very rare, but incredibly useful as a "long-distance blackjack". One of my favourite arrows.

    9. Rope arrow - 5/5. I LOVE using them. Climbing ropes is just awesome.

    10. Vine arrow - 1/5. The most useless kind of equipment, unless we treat it as another name for a rope arrow.

    11. Flash bomb - 2/5. Never found them particularly useful, since I always try not to alert guards. They are fine for killing zombies, though.

    12. Mine - 5/5. Great piece of equipment. Awesome visual effect of blowing up and the feeling of anticipation (until someone steps on the mine) is priceless.

    13. Compass - 2/5. It's not particularly useful in most of vanilla missions. At least I can navigate without its help.

    14. Healing potion - 4/5. Invaluable drink if you are more into an aggressive style of gameplay.

    15. Slow-fall potion - 2/5. If you know how to descend, this potion is kinda useless.

    16. Breath potion - 2/5. If you know how to swim, this potion is kinda useless.

    17. Holy water - 5/5. So much fun!

    18. Invisibility potion - 3/5.

    19. Gas mine - 4/5.

    20. Flash mine - N/A. I never used it.

    21. Flare - 1/5.

    22. Scouting orb - 1/5.

    23. Speed potion - 3/5.
    Last edited by Aemanyl; 15th Apr 2018 at 03:23.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    Why is vine arrow below rope arrow? Isn't it strictly superior? Otherwise, I largely agree, but you forgot:

    21. Flare: 0/5. All they do is clutter my inventory, and occasionally get used by accident, getting me caught.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    you forgot dewdrop :P yes he is a equipment from t2 and magical item

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Location: Slovenia
    2. Blackjack - ?/5. I wouldn't know.
    7. Mine - 4/5 Because the location of skull key in Greenbay is too crowded. (Opens doors)
    11. Flash bomb: 4/5 In regards to mechanical eyes I find them "ghostlike"
    21. Flare: 5/5. Flares give you wings!

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    You forgot the Scouting Orb... useful in a time when quick-loads took 5 seconds and you are playing iron-man. Of course if quick-loads are usually less than 3 seconds, and you started with the quick-loading on mistake play-style then not really useful at all.

    And the Vine Arrow just adds grates to the rope arrow capability. It is just a real pity that this extra application was so rarely available in mission design. More random grates and vents in FMs would be helpful (especially if there little wood throughout the levels).

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2016
    Location: The Warp
    Speed Potion: 5/5. I don't use them much, but I find them hilarious.

    Magic Loot Bag (TM) 50/5. You can't steal everything that isn't nailed down and also hold 100 arrows, a sword, a blackjack, and various other equipment without it.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2013
    I think that:

    Sword - 3/5
    Blackjack - 5/5
    Broadhead arrow - 3/5
    Water arrow - 5/5
    Moss arrow - 2/5
    Noisemaker arrow - 2/5
    Fire arrow - 4/5
    Gas arrow - 4/5
    Rope arrow - 5/5
    Vine arrow - 1/5
    Flash bomb - 3/5
    Mine - 4/5
    Compass - 1/5
    Healing potion - 4/5
    Slowfall potion - 1/5
    Breath potion - 1/5
    Holy water - 5/5
    Invisibility potion - 3/5
    Gas mine - 4/5
    Flash mine - 1/5
    Flare - 1/5
    Scouting orb - 1/5
    Speed potion - 5/5
    Lockpicks - 5/5
    Frogbeast egg - 3/5
    Last edited by Xmodule999; 15th Apr 2018 at 09:05.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    I still don't get rating vine below rope. If you had to choose one or the other, who would ever choose rope? Vine is identical, but with the added ability of attaching to grates. I agree that's not a huge improvement, but it certainly isn't worse!

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    I still don't get rating vine below rope. If you had to choose one or the other, who would ever choose rope? Vine is identical, but with the added ability of attaching to grates. I agree that's not a huge improvement, but it certainly isn't worse!
    Apparently, some players don't know about vine arrows' ability to attach to grates.

    Water arrows - 6/5 because you can use them to press buttons too. You don't need to use broadheads for that.

    Slow-fall potion - 5/5 because despite its name, it can be used not only for falling but for climbing as well.



    and yes ,dewdrop 0/5=useless junk :P

  10. #10
    AKA H3H3
    Registered: Aug 2016
    Location: My mum's basement
    Quote Originally Posted by Xmodule999 View Post
    Rope arrow - 5/5
    Vine arrow - 1/5
    Yeah, this makes sense. What makes the vine arrow so bad?

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2013
    Quote Originally Posted by H3H3 View Post
    Yeah, this makes sense. What makes the vine arrow so bad?
    Vine arrow is shorter than rope arrow.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    It is? I had no idea! Interesting... I'll have to look into this!

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2017
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    I still don't get rating vine below rope. If you had to choose one or the other, who would ever choose rope? Vine is identical, but with the added ability of attaching to grates. I agree that's not a huge improvement, but it certainly isn't worse!
    If I remember correctly, you get first vine arrows very late - in Trail of Blood mission. They aren't worse than rope arrows, but the innovation with grates is not useful whatsoever. I rate the scale of improvement, not their basic function (which is the same as in rope arrows).

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2015
    Location: Wisconsin
    Actually, being able to attach to grates comes in very handy in places like Angelwatch and Soulforge, where rope arrows are virtually useless. Wooden textures don't make sense in Mechanist-themed areas, while metal grates fit right in.

  15. #15
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    Quote Originally Posted by Xmodule999 View Post
    Vine arrow is shorter than rope arrow.
    Incorrect. Both have a length of 30. The only difference in a deployed vine vs a deployed rope is the model.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    dew drop works only against 2 or more mech humans=it make a transparent version of dewdrop appear above head and blinds the mechs for a short time,i tested it on t2 and it works

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: Denmark
    OP forgot lockpicks... 5/5
    Such a brilliant piece of game design... Plenty of other games have had lockpick mechanics, and through various little minigames tried to make interesting gameplay with them... Settings individual tumbler pins, breaking lockpicks, aligning patterns, what have you...
    Thief 1 and 2 shows just how simple and brilliant it can be done.
    You would think that the fact that you need to do nothing apart from holding a button to use them would make them boring, but to me, nothing beats sneaking up to a half lit door on a guards patrol route and frantically picking away at the lock before the guard returns (one of the brilliant aspects of the picks are that the picking happens in real time while you can remain observant of your sorroundings). The sounds of the lockpick working at the lock, the satisfying click of a tumbler setting in place, that moment when the final one does and the door opens... All brilliant in execution.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2014
    Location: Dunwall
    I don't know why but I never could get Dewdrop to work

  19. #19
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    The relevant script:

    DewDropDoll
    miss10.osm 2
    If the container of this object is being attacked by at least three Mechanist type AI, and one of the attackers is within 10 feet, then the ghost is activated. The ghost object is linked to with ScriptParams with the data set to myghost. It is teleported 4 feet above the location of the container, a blinding flash is triggered, and the message PowerOn is sent to the ghost. The check is performed every 3 seconds until it is activated.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Tommyph1208 View Post
    OP forgot lockpicks... 5/5
    Such a brilliant piece of game design... Plenty of other games have had lockpick mechanics, and through various little minigames tried to make interesting gameplay with them... Settings individual tumbler pins, breaking lockpicks, aligning patterns, what have you...
    Thief 1 and 2 shows just how simple and brilliant it can be done.
    You would think that the fact that you need to do nothing apart from holding a button to use them would make them boring, but to me, nothing beats sneaking up to a half lit door on a guards patrol route and frantically picking away at the lock before the guard returns (one of the brilliant aspects of the picks are that the picking happens in real time while you can remain observant of your sorroundings). The sounds of the lockpick working at the lock, the satisfying click of a tumbler setting in place, that moment when the final one does and the door opens... All brilliant in execution.
    Even TDS carries this mechanic well, since the lockpicking aspect is still simple. In fact, it is better since timing is more in the player's hand rather than static by the lock.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2016
    Location: Strawberry Fields
    I've heard a few people say lockpicking is worse in DS but I find that ridiculous. All you do is hold it at a door in first 2 games, in DS there's actually gameplay with it.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: Denmark
    Quote Originally Posted by IAmTheWalrus View Post
    I've heard a few people say lockpicking is worse in DS but I find that ridiculous. All you do is hold it at a door in first 2 games, in DS there's actually gameplay with it.
    The whole point in my post was that I didn't think you needed "gameplay" in T1 and T2 for the lockpicking to be interesting... It of course depends on the scenario... Sure picking locks in that way in an empty level isn't interesting... But as soon as you add a patrolling guard walking past the door, the tension rises and made it plenty enough for me... in T3 you cannot look around while doing the lockpicking which is sort of like taking you out of the game and into a little different (very lame) one for a short while picking a door until you have unlocked and are allowed to continue.

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    Flash bombs get full marks from e. As an Iron Manner and pseudo-speedrunner I find them incredibly useful tools. Not sure why they do not work on Watchers though.

    There's a thought - do they work on small bots? Would be strange if they did, seeing as how they seem to be blind. Well to Garrett, anyway.

    Probably the single most important is the blackjack.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2013
    As for lockpicking, liked that DS's required some sort of skill from the player. My favourite "lockpicking" in games is in the first Bioshock. Lovred that pipe-matching mini-game.

    If there are two mini-games I wouldn't mind seeing realesed in their own right, it is Bioshock Hacking and Pazaak from KOTOR.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Bioshock hacking already exists as a separate game. It's called Pipe Dream / Pipe Mania.
    Last edited by Starker; 20th Apr 2018 at 18:14.

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