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Thread: - E3 - 2018 - ENTER THE HYPEZONE -

  1. #76
    Moderator and Priest
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Dinosaur Ladies of the Night
    Not an official trailer, but still neat nonetheless.


  2. #77
    Level 10,000 achieved
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Finland
    Hahaha that's great!

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2008
    Cyberpunk 2077 was definitely the game at E3 that I'm interested in seeing more of, but reading about - and listening to - impressions of the private gameplay screening doesn't make it seem that exciting to me. I'm sure it'll probably be a good game, but they haven't let on to any grand ideas or unique selling points yet. I watched a bunch of videos of people beaming at what they saw, but everything they were talking about was either a check-list of what you'd expect from a modern open-world action adventure, or features from many other places. I just had that gut feeling that there's something missing, and that it could be fairly safe, with most of the imaginative stuff kept for side quests.

    Sorry to jam up your hype thread with pessimism, henke.

  4. #79
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Open-world games are kind of common, but what other game is really open-world urban cyberpunk?

  5. #80
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Mirror's Edge? Okay, I'm being facetious, but I'm more intrigued by the idea of a dense, futuristic RPG constructed by one of the best world-builders in today's gamedev scene. It could be a linear set of environments/Mass Effect-style hub-and-spoke and I'd still want in. Open-world isn't really a selling point any more, it's just sort of a given for a humongous AAA RPG these days.

    It's always good to temper hype, though. I just wish they'd release that demo for the public too, because now that the write-ups are out, the only earthly reason they'd hold back from showing it to the masses is because they've done a vertical slice that's not 100% representative of the full game - i.e., they want to avoid the backlash they had with TW3's initial trailers.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 18th Jun 2018 at 03:35.

  6. #81
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    It's not just any open world, though. It's from the guys who made Witcher 3.

  7. #82
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    That's what I mean. They could make it smaller and I'd still be interested, even if it were a corridor shooter. They'd be talented enough to make it work either way. Open-world doesn't mean all that much to me in RPGs since it's a genre you where can take it for granted that the gamespace will always be 'open' to some extent.

    But let's ask the really important questions: is it really open-world if it's taking place in a city? (Don't answer that.)

  8. #83
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    What I'd like to see is an RPG that makes good use of the kind of systems you get in the best open worlds. One of the things that massively disappointed me about Mankind Divided was that Prague simply didn't feel alive, and that's true for the more traditional RPGs as well: people just stand around, shuffling their feet and looping the same three or four barks. I would like to see an RPG where the world looks and feels as alive, at least on a surface level, as Liberty City or Los Santos. Ultima VII did this really well back in the day, even its 'living world' systems were obviously quite primitive - but few modern RPGs have replicated even that level of a living world. Since Ultima (specifically from the fifth to the seventh game in the series) was where I learnt to love RPGs, I've always missed worlds that seem reasonably coherent and alive, and it's one of the reasons why a game like Red Dead Redemption actually scratched that particular itch more than the likes of Pillars of Eternity.

  9. #84
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Yeah, it'd be nice to see interesting NPC routines that simulate their lives, and a more granular level of interaction in a fleshed out world, like U7 for the modern era... but I imagine the effort required would be absolutely ridiculous. Maybe possible in a more condensed space than Britannia, though.

  10. #85
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Yeah, it may be that while U7's living world systems worked for that level of graphical fidelity, creating systems that make NPCs seem truly alive in modern games require so much more detail to be believable that it's almost impossible to pull it off. Rockstar fakes living worlds extremely well, but they also have insane budgets.

    However, for the relatively contained RPG locations of old-school games like Pillars of Eternity and immersive sims like the modern Deus Ex games, it should be feasible to make those look and feel more alive than they do.

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    That's why Warren Spector's idea of a one city block RPG sounds so intriguing. And you wouldn't need a GTA size budget to do it.

  12. #87
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    That's kinda what Mankind Divided did, though, there were missions that took place outside the city block. I didn't think the game pulled it off all that well (the Prague hub felt very artificial to me), but I like the idea and hope that others will try their hand at it with more success.

  13. #88
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Mankind Divided did very little of the in-depth simulation that Warren's idea is about. It's basically that you have this one city block and people live their lives like they would in reality -- closing up shops, etc. And they would have complex relationships and histories with each other. And everything would be simulated down to the smallest detail. The way he proposed it, it's framed as the antithesis of the open world game -- instead of miles wide and an inch deep, you aim for the opposite.
    Last edited by Starker; 18th Jun 2018 at 05:12.

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    That actually sounds really cool.

  15. #90
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Switzerland
    Yeah, admittedly Mankind Divided only did the "one city block RPG", not the systems'n'simulation bit. More or less the only concession MD made to making its hub feel alive was that it changed in between the missions outside Prague to reflect how things were escalating.

  16. #91
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Yeah, people have done small-sized RPGs before, that's not really new. The intriguing part is the idea of making a tiny slice of a world as alive and rich and deep as possible. Maybe if SS3 is a hit, Otherside will finance it.

  17. #92
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    This conversation reminds me I never really played The Last Express properly. Time to dig that one out of the GOG library, I think.

  18. #93
    Thing What Kicks
    Registered: Apr 2004
    Location: London
    Witcher 3 certainly simulated some NPC's lives. They had daily routines they'd follow, that's for sure, and they'd chat about events.
    I'm not sure how reactive the simulation was, as while I put hundreds of hours in to the game, I never thought of trying to disrupt the sim to that extent. Hmm, good excuse to revisit the game again!

    But then, if simulation of every-day lives of characters is what you want, it's really hard to beat Dwarf Fortress. And that game's problem is the sheer over-generous wealth of information it supplies.
    Here's a typical Dwarf's personality:


    Those thoughts and personality traits change depending on what the dwarf encounters as it goes about its daily perambulations. And every sodding object in the game, be it alive or inanimate, tracks its own history in similar ways.

    There's a reason why amongst a certain strata of gamers, a more important question than "Will it run Crysis?" is "What's the time to framerate-death in Dwarf Fortress?"

    Huh, and I've just realised that since upgrading my CPU, I haven't ran DF.

  19. #94
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Melbourne, Australia
    Quote Originally Posted by Starker View Post
    Mankind Divided did very little of the in-depth simulation that Warren's idea is about. It's basically that you have this one city block and people live their lives like they would in reality -- closing up shops, etc. And they would have complex relationships and histories with each other. And everything would be simulated down to the smallest detail. The way he proposed it, it's framed as the antithesis of the open world game -- instead of miles wide and an inch deep, you aim for the opposite.
    We just need Westworld the RPG already. Minus the killing of players/humans and AI glitches. That or an actual holodeck.

  20. #95
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Right, I was going to mention Mirror's Edge 2 & then forgot about it. Ok, and Mankind Divided. Both were let downs.

    Thirth already explained the same feeling I had with MD more or less. The levels felt to gamey and constructed for the player to be living spaces. (The set pieces themselves were lush though. I dream of having assets like that to make my own levels.)
    GTA5 is the gold standard for a living world, with trash and weeds and broken down rusty jalopies placed with such devoted care. MD was a far cry from that.

    ME2 was the one that really disappointed me though. It was even a good game. (MD was too, as a shooter.) But something was just off about the world. Maybe it was the tone. The city had the feeling of an organized play-space out back of a youth hostel or share-house. It didn't feel particularly cyberpunk. I guess I was disappointed because the first Mirror's Edge is one of my top-five games of all time, and the second didn't really capture the magic. But that gameplay doesn't really lend itself to open world but to set levels, because then you gamify the world too much as some kind of neverending obstacle course.

    I guess we can mention Stalker. Even with discrete levels, it felt like an open world. The catch there is that it isn't particularly cyberpunk, although there are a few scifi tropes thrown in there, and it's not urban.

    Anyway, all of this is the context in which I'm guardedly looking forward to this game as potentially meeting those expectations, or it's a rare contender I have hopes for.

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    The witcher 3 was actually quite shallow, follow a few peasants around for a bit and you will see. It didnt matter though, the sheer scope of the world made up for it and it seemed a lot deeper than it was. And by shallow I dont mean the quests and such.

  22. #97
    Dema, I thought Mirror's Edge 2 was disappointing too and I think it's because DICE has no idea why the first one was so great. It was maybe the most cynical, fan-driven game I've ever played as well. Actually, not so much fan-driven, but anti-fan-driven. Making a game for the people who didn't like the first one, and guess what, they didn't like the second one and now the people who liked the first one don't either.

    Edit: Er, other than Fallout 4 I guess. And whatever 76 is trying to be. And I guess TDS/DXIW fell into that trap a bit too.

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