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Thread: Thief 2x Game Disc

  1. #26
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Are you making any progress at all, Tobey?

    So far I'm assuming that you've downloaded Thief 2 from Steam, downloaded and run Tafferpatcher. Is that right? Can you play Thief? Is it now just installing and playing T2X that you're having trouble with?

    I noted you mentioned a problem with downloading from Galaer's link. Is that resolved now?

    You will need to create a folder for FMs outside your T2 folder, mine is in C:\Games\ or something like that and then move the T2x download into that. Then follow the steps in the link to FM Selector provided by Brethren.

    Sorry if I'm repeating myself but I'm a bit confused about where you are in the process. You should have made enough posts to send private messages but if not you could email me (address in my profile) if you'd prefer to carry on trying to get this sorted out by pm or email.

  2. #27
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    wish it would distinguish between T1 and 2 like Darkloader
    Let R Soul know if you are missing something.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany

    After bashing on Darkloader for a bit, let's get back to Tobey's problem for just a moment.

    Tobey, I personally prefer using T2x as a FM (the zip version). I think that is also what nickie aims at. For that to work, the following procedure should have worked well:

    1. Install Thief 2.

    2. Download the zip version of T2x from http://www.bogadocious.com/thief/T2X.zip, just like Galaer said in a previous post. When your browser prompts you to save the zip file, create a folder for missions outside the folder with Thief 2, and save the T2X.zip in there. I use the folder d:\t2_newdark_levels, nickie probably uses C:\Games\t2_fms or something like that. Select your own name if you wish.

    3. Download and install the newest TafferPatcher. At the time of writing this post, it is version 2.0.18. Unfortunately, it's sometimes also written as 2.1.8, but that means the same.

    You find download links for TafferPatcher here. Select one of the links below the line "TafferPatcher v. 2.0.18". You should then receive a file called "tafferpatcher_tma_218_beta.exe". Start it to install TafferPatcher.

    Menus will come up. Unna Oertdottir once wrote a post describing how to install TafferPatcher 2.0.17; I'll now shamelessly copy and adapt that post.

    3a. In the installation menu, select the folder where you installed Thief 2 before.
    3b. In the menu list, select NewDark (this is the only important thing). It may also be called "Patch 1.25".
    3c. All other patches can be installed, but it is not necessary. Leave them un-selected for now, you can always install them later on if you wish.
    3d. Finish installation
    3e. In the Thief 2 folder, open the file cam_mod.ini with a text editor. Windows usually has something called "Editor" or "Notepad". Use that
    3f. In that file, look for the lines
    ; always start the FM Selector (if one is present)
    ;Fm


    Remove ";" in front of "FM". Save the file and close the editor.

    3g. To verify that everything worked so far, run thief2.exe or make a shortcut to the desktop (if TafferPatcher has not already created one). The game should ask where your Thief 2 missions are located. Point it to the folder where you put the downloaded T2x zip file in step 2.

    After a while, a table with fan missions should be displayed on your monitor. It will most likely just contain T2X, since you only downloaded that mission.

    With TafferPatcher 2.0.18, there will be a line of text at the top of the window, saying "Thief 2 Final 1.25 -- [FMSel 1.1.2]". If that is the case, you are now ready to play Thief 2 as well as fan missions for it.

    4. To play the original game, select the "Skip FM" button on the lower left of the window. Do this to verify that the game itself still works. Leave the game again afterwards.

    5. Click on the line in the table saying "T2X" or maybe something like "T2X: Shadows of the Metal Age". I don't know how exactly it will be spelled, but you should not have too much trouble finding the right line. After clicking once on that line, press the "Play FM" button on the bottom of the window. FMSel (AKA FM-Selector) will now prepare the T2X fan mission pack for use, and then it will automatically start it.

    6. If the T2X FM pack starts up correctly, you should see a slightly different starting screen than the one you know from Thief 2. For example, there should be an image of a ship displayed, and a sound like waves rolling on a shore should be heard.

    7. The options on the starting screen should not be very different from the ones of the Thief 2 game, so select "New Game" (or something similar) to start your T2X adventure.


    As I said, that's what I would call an optimal procedure for installing and running everything in order to get T2X going on modern computers. Just like nickie, however, I am not certain what exactly you did before, so please tell us that. Or get in PM or E-Mail contact with nickie to sort out things.

    Hopefully, you will soon have no trouble anymore with T2X or fan missions in general. I'm playing them for about 18 years now and still can't get enough of that...


    And now for that Darkloader stuff.

    Darkloader was a great way to play fan missions when Thief and Thief 2 came out nearly two decades ago. There have been a few other FM loaders back then, but most of them are forgotten by now, and I don't think most others were as popular as Darkloader was in the good old days of thieving before NewDark.

    In 2012, Thief and Thief 2 were quite old, and did not work well with modern computers and modern operating systems any more. A mysterious person calling himself (or herself) "The Raven" (in French) updated the old game. The result was named NewDark, and it is in many ways better than the original game.

    NewDark also came with its own built-in FM loader, called FM-Selector (or FMSel). Technically, FMSel has some advantages when compared to Darkloader, and one of them is that FMSel does not mess up the game when it crashes. Darkloader could easily do that. Although it happened only a few times for me, other people were plagued by that problem a lot more. For them, FMSel surely was a relief.

    Furthermore, I noticed that language support in Darkloader was broken with many versions of NewDark. It would be difficult to change that, AFAIK, and since the last time Darkloader got an update was before 2013, Darkloader will most likely never be able to correctly handle languages in the future anymore.

    There are other things which may go wrong with Darkloader, which is why I do not use it for NewDark anymore (except for testing something every now and then). My old Thief 2 setups (without NewDark) still have Darkloader, but for NewDark, I strongly recommend FMSel or R_Soul's NewDarkLoader. The latter is technically compatible with FMSel, so one can freely switch between these two.

    I don't wish to punish or ban anyone still wishing to use old Darkloader. It took myself about a year to accept NewDark and FMSel, but after a while and some experience, I saw the advantages of this new game and FM loader combination. I think it's time to say goodbye to Darkloader (and furthermore, to Garretloader, if anyone still uses that one), for it's giving me and others more and more trouble, while its alternatives work well with NewDark.

    Oh, and guessing from what I understood from looking a bit into the source code of Darkloader a while ago, I guess it would be difficult to implement an automatic detection for wheter a mission is for Thief 1 or Thief 2 into FMSel or NewDarkloader. I even believe that the detection method of Darkloader would only work for non-NewDark missions. One would probably have to invent a whole new detection logic for T1 NewDark missions.

    I personally use two different installations for T1 NewDark and T2 NewDark, as well as two different folders for the missions for them. That removes the need for auto-detecting what mission is for which game.

    Okay, time to end this post, before it gets longer than The Lord of the Rings.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 28th Aug 2018 at 18:32.

  4. #29
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Right. I was busy for most of the day, and haven't done much (read: nothing)
    Yes, that's correct. I can play Thief, but T2X isn't working, as I've done nothing to fix it. I'll give what baeuchlein says a shot-- scratch that, I'll do nothing, since Tobey is tired and wants to do something else. Tomorrow I'll give it a shot, then when something goes wrong, I'll post on this sub, and PM you, just to annoy as many people as possible and maybe I'll get something done.
    Until then, good night.

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    I can play Thief, but T2X isn't working, as I've done nothing to fix it.
    How did you install T2X? If you used an installer from the T2X website, you may already have damaged your Thief 2 installation, although the game seems to start up normally. The old T2X installer was not made for NewDark versions of Thief. (That's why I suggest the method via the T2X.zip download.)

    You say you can play Thief 2. What about the FM loader (FMSel) we wrote about here? And do you have any idea whether you play an original version (e.g., v1.18) of Thief 2, or a NewDark version (v1.19, v1.20, ... v1.26)?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    Tomorrow I'll give it a shot, then when something goes wrong, I'll post on this sub [...]
    Don't do all that. Let us first determine whether your Thief 2 installation does still work and whether the installation of Tafferpatcher worked. Just doing something, then something else, and then yet another thing without thinking about what that may have done, is a good recipe for disaster. When my father has problems with the TV, he starts to randomly press buttons, and usually, I am informed once everything is screwed up a lot. But no one can tell me what was done to create that mess. It can be a lot of work to get things back up and running then. Don't fall into the same trap!
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 29th Aug 2018 at 08:16. Reason: One typo less...

  6. #31
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    While we're on the subject and for the purpose of adding to my education, if you have a Steam version of Thief, do you have to move it out of Program Files to properly run Tafferpatcher and play FMs or is that just an option/fix if you run into problems?

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    Location: Montpellier, France
    It's usually good practice not to install any games under Program Files. Normally you shouldn't need to move your Steam copy out of Steam to patch it and run FMs, though as a precaution I only ever use my Steam copies to make other copies for various purposes (DromEd, etc).

  8. #33
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    I used the website. How would that damage Thief 2?
    I don't know what you're talking about with the FM loader, but I can play both the Tafferpatched version and the un-Tafferpatched version. I hope that makes sense- it was the latest version of the Tafferpatcher. I think.
    So, don't do anything until I hear from you. Got it.

  9. #34
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    I used the website. How would that damage Thief 2?
    I don't know what you're talking about with the FM loader, but I can play both the Tafferpatched version and the un-Tafferpatched version. I hope that makes sense- it was the latest version of the Tafferpatcher. I think.
    So, don't do anything until I hear from you. Got it.
    Sorry I'm not making much sense. Maybe if this keeps up, I'll work up the courage to run past the zombies in Cragscleft and get to the holy water font.

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    I used the website. How would that damage Thief 2?
    [...] I can play both the Tafferpatched version and the un-Tafferpatched version. I hope that makes sense- it was the latest version of the Tafferpatcher.
    Just looking at the website does not damage Thief 2, of course.

    However, I dimly remember that the original method of installing T2X was to download an installer from the website, and then start the installer. It would then copy some of Thief 2's files to another folder, or maybe change some of Thief 2's game files. Depending on what the installer does, and depending on the folder where the player chooses to install T2X into, this could lead to an installation that would only play T2X, but not Thief 2 any more. I do not remember the exact details anymore, since it's about twelve years since I used that installation method for T2X.

    On the other hand, you wrote that you can play both the version of Thief 2 which was not touched by Tafferpatcher, as well as the one which was changed with Tafferpatcher. That sounds good, and I think it will be comparatively easy to continue now. I would recommend beginning with step 3e ("In the Thief 2 folder, open the file cam_mod.ini [...]") in my long list in the posting above. That should lead to success. If anything does not work then (or if you already tried that and something did not work), please post again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    I don't know what you're talking about with the FM loader, [...]
    If you are referring to my writings about Darkloader, NewDarkloader and FMSel - that was rather directed at others here in the thread. They were discussing whether it is better to use the old Darkloader to play fan missions, or rather the newer FM-Selector ("FMSel") which comes with NewDark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    Sorry I'm not making much sense. Maybe if this keeps up, I'll work up the courage to run past the zombies in Cragscleft and get to the holy water font.
    It does make sense now. But if you want to deal with the Cragscleft zombies, I think you would be better off not heeding my former advice - if they start to rip pieces out of Garrett, don't wait for my replies until you do something!



    And now for something completely different.

    Quote Originally Posted by nickie View Post
    [...] if you have a Steam version of Thief, do you have to move it out of Program Files to properly run Tafferpatcher and play FMs or is that just an option/fix if you run into problems?
    Steam itself is not the problem in this case. As skacky already mentioned, it is generally preferrable to install games in other folders than Windows' "Program Files" or "Program Files (x86)" folders. This is because newer versions of Windows tend to restrict access to files stored in Windows' folders. Windows may not even give install programs or installed games full access to their own sub-folders in "Program Files".

    So if a game wants to save changes to its configuration into a file, Windows may prevent it from doing so. Older games are more likely to fall for that trap, since older Windows versions did not restrict access that much, and old games (and other programs) therefore do not even "know" that a newer version of Windows may not let them do what they want to do in their own folder. They may not even give the user a useful error message, since they were not programmed to handle cases where the operating system does not allow them to write to their own files. The user may then see just a "Write Error!" message, and fear that his hard disc is defective, when in fact it's really an "Access denied!" case.

    One may, however, create a "Program files" folder on an other drive than where Windows is installed, and use that for installing games. In that case, Windows usually says to itself, "well, that's not a folder I created, so I don't care what other programs do in there." It works for me - my Windows 7 is on the C: drive and sometimes gives trouble when something is installed in "C:\Program Files", but it doesn't care much about anything in "D:\Program Files", which I created myself on the D: drive.

    Steam, however, may also interfere with changes in a game folder if that game was installed via Steam. I do not have Steam myself, but I read about serious trouble some players ran into when they attempted to apply a "mod" to an old role-playing game. Some were able to get around Steam's firm grip on the game's folder, others were not, and therefore had to play an un-modded version of that game.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 30th Aug 2018 at 09:34. Reason: Formatting changed for better reading

  11. #36
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Oh! Yeah, before I read this: last night, when playing Masks, I realized that it was impossible to put out torches- the fire texture would disappear, but the light was still present. Where is the latest version of the Tafferpatcher? Did I just not get the latest version? I dunno.

  12. #37
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by baeuchlein View Post
    Just looking at the website does not damage Thief 2, of course.

    However, I dimly remember that the original method of installing T2X was to download an installer from the website, and then start the installer. It would then copy some of Thief 2's files to another folder, or maybe change some of Thief 2's game files. Depending on what the installer does, and depending on the folder where the player chooses to install T2X into, this could lead to an installation that would only play T2X, but not Thief 2 any more. I do not remember the exact details anymore, since it's about twelve years since I used that installation method for T2X.

    On the other hand, you wrote that you can play both the version of Thief 2 which was not touched by Tafferpatcher, as well as the one which was changed with Tafferpatcher. That sounds good, and I think it will be comparatively easy to continue now. I would recommend beginning with step 3e ("In the Thief 2 folder, open the file cam_mod.ini [...]") in my long list in the posting above. That should lead to success. If anything does not work then (or if you already tried that and something did not work), please post again.



    If you are referring to my writings about Darkloader, NewDarkloader and FMSel - that was rather directed at others here in the thread. They were discussing whether it is better to use the old Darkloader to play fan missions, or rather the newer FM-Selector ("FMSel") which comes with NewDark.
    Ah! Help, technical stuff! I'll try that later today.

  13. #38
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    Oh! Yeah, before I read this: last night, when playing Masks, I realized that it was impossible to put out torches- the fire texture would disappear, but the light was still present. Where is the latest version of the Tafferpatcher? Did I just not get the latest version? I dunno.
    Does anybody know how to fix this?

  14. #39
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    yes, restart the level.

  15. #40
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    yes, restart the level.
    Will that fix it permanently?

  16. #41
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    yes.

  17. #42
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    So, I got to step five, but there's nothing in the fan mission loader. At all. Now what?

  18. #43
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    step five of what?

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany

    voodoo, I guess it's step five of baeuchlein's Holy Bible Of Installing T2 NewDark And Getting The F*cking Thing To Play T2X, published in all its glory as post #28 above.

    Okay Tobey, so FMSel is working now, but it is not able to find any downloaded mission. To correct that, begin by clicking on the small blue gear icon at the bottom of the FMSel window. A menu will pop up. Select "FM Archive Path...". Another window will open in which you can move through the contents of your hard disk and other drives.

    You now have to tell FMSel where you placed T2X.zip when you downloaded it. Once you find T2X.zip on your hard disk, select it, then click "open" or "open file". (How exactly this option is called I do not know, it can be slightly different for any version of Windows.)

    The window should now close itself again. After a short while, FMSel should finally display T2X in the list. Try to continue with step 5, then.
    Last edited by baeuchlein; 4th Sep 2018 at 04:24. Reason: "youo" is not an english word

  20. #45
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Quote Originally Posted by baeuchlein View Post
    voodoo, I guess it's step five of baeuchlein's Holy Bible Of Installing T2 NewDark And Getting The F*cking Thing To Play T2X, published in all its glory as post #28 above.

    Okay Tobey, so FMSel is working now, but it is not able to find any downloaded mission. To correct that, begin by clicking on the small blue gear icon at the bottom of the FMSel window. A menu will pop up. Select "FM Archive Path...". Another window will open in which you can move through the contents of your hard disk and other drives.

    You now have to tell FMSel where you placed T2X.zip when you downloaded it. Once you find T2X.zip on your hard disk, select it, then click "open" or "open file". (How exactly this option is called I do not know, it can be slightly different for any version of Windows.)

    The window should now close itself again. After a short while, FMSel should finally display T2X in the list. Try to continue with step 5, then.
    What? I don't know what you're talking about, "T2X.zip."

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    What? I don't know what you're talking about, "T2X.zip."
    That is the file which should have been downloaded in step 2 of the list in post #28. Did you download that? Did your anti-virus program delete it?

  22. #47
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Oh! No, I just downloaded the Thief 2X from the website. I'll do it, and trust you that it's reliable.

  23. #48
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    Okay, so I think I did what you suggested. How long between when I "Open" it and when it pops up in the menu?

  24. #49
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2018
    It worked! It really worked! I can play it now! I used select instead of open, and it worked!
    Thanks so much everyone!

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Tobey View Post
    I used select instead of open, and it worked!
    Weird. I do not even have any "select" button in that case, there's only "open", "cancel", and nothing else.

    Oh, and usually, it should take less than a minute until the menu with the FMs pops up.

    Well, have fun with T2X!

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