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Thread: Resurgence - The Ancient Crown

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002

    Resurgence - The Ancient Crown

    I just started playing this mission again. I started it awhile back and quickly lost interest because of poor performance and because it was so un-thief-like. Back then, I had a PII-350 and i750 graphics card and the framerates were horrible. Now I have a PIII-933 and a GeForce2 and the mission plays just fine.

    This time, I got farther along in 10 minutes than I did in a couple hours the last time I tried. However, this time I skipped reading most of the books and such.

    spoiler:
    Right now, I'm on my way back to Monroe's after picking up the magic scroll in the park. Last time, I just barely made it inside Monroe's place. I think I may have to restart and read everything in order to finish.


    I just did a couple of searches of this forum for "Resurgence" and "Ancient Crown" but found almost nothing. Seems like not many people have played this one. Either that, or it was so easy that nobody had any questions.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster
    ...or maybe it's because few of us have the CPU muscle to play and finish such an untested beast.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Originally posted by Silver Sorrow
    ...or maybe it's because few of us have the CPU muscle to play and finish such an untested beast.
    I know you were kidding, but a poll 3 months ago showed that most people had decent systems (or maybe the people with slower systems were too embarassed to say so. )

    Anyway, it's not like a 933MHz PIII is "muscular" anymore. Consider that 2.533GHz systems are available today and 3.0GHz systems will be available 4 months from now.

    Anyway, I know that Calendra's Legacy needs more CPU muscle than Resurgence.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Marlboro, MA, USA
    Resurgence is extremely cool IMHO but it's buggy and quirky - I'll have to try it again soon
    The Keep for Thief 1 and 2 FMs, Shadowdark for Thief 3 and Dark Mod FMs

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster
    Originally posted by Brian_R171
    Anyway, I know that Calendra's Legacy needs more CPU muscle than Resurgence.
    Not necessarily...I played CL with few problems on a P3-450; Resurgence played horribly on the same system. It's due to a few factors, one of which is that it's not optimized for play as of yet...that much is obvious. Another problem is the size of the mission, in addition to a lot of things going on at once. That tends to kill framerates in a big way.

    It's too bad this mission (and a few other FMs as well) couldn't be done with a hub-based system...that would cut down on a lot of problems right there.
    The Foxhole
    "...so she went to the Sorbonne. You know, in France?"
    "Oh. For a minute there, I thought you meant the one in Utah."

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales

    God, it's been almost a year since I posted!

    Since I am the author of that untested beast I suppose I should say something here
    I really wish I could have finished the mission - let alone the sequels (it's supposed to be a series of five or six missions). I had to leave for an internship abroad and there was no way I could have worked on it at all since September. Now I *would* have the time but I am recording some new music at the moment and got all sorts of other things to do, plus right now I just can't the energy up to delve into DromEd's instability again

    I thought the plot of the series is interesting so I would really like to make it someday. I hope I will be able to learn Thief 3 modding quickly enough to accomplish that goal (and that the tools for Thief3/DX2 will be as ingenious as DromEd is).

    The Ancient Crown was my first finished mission, and it shows, but I believe it still turned out nice. I enjoyed scripting those 15 spells and simply building that city (the canals or the park are my favorite).

    If (or hopefully: when) I do the series with a different engine I will remake this level and do all the things with it that I intended to do but didn't manage for whatever reasons:
    1. Monroe's will be a lot bigger and more spacious.
    2. The spells will be even cooler. Especially the "tree ladder".
    3.
    spoiler:
    Cosh's teleporting around the place will be smarter, so that it will be actually relevant. He will teleport in, kill, teleport out, etc, and you have to track him down and stop him. Oh yes, now that I mentioned stopping Cosh, it will also be a little easier to steal the crown from him

    4. I will let many people playtest it for a month before releasing it

    I am glad to hear that people nevertheless enjoy the buggy piece. Let me know if anyone thinks I should better do the series in Thief2. I will probably get a modern notebook soon, so I will be able to DromEd if I really want to, even when I am at the end of the world.
    (But if you ask me waiting for Thief3 sounds better to me :P)

  7. #7
    Sneaky1Kenobi
    Guest

    Ymochel

    Ymochel, I enjoyed what I could play of Resurgence! Thought it was great! I unfortunately only have a P3 550 (I did up my RAM to 256 - which is pretty good), and I could not finish the mission. Maybe when I get a better system I can complete it. Best of luck with the sequels!

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Blackpool, England
    Ymochel

    Just to say thanks for Resurgence, it was one I really enjoyed... after getting my head round the fact that I wasn't in Kansas anymore .

    Part of me says thief 3 is too far away, carry on now, but if you believe that you will better fulfill your vision with the thief 3 engine then perhaps it is better to wait... Just do us all a favour and promise that we will have more sometime
    Last edited by Taliesin; 25th Jul 2002 at 08:47.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales

    One thing I don't understand...

    I built and played Ancient Crown on my PII-450 and it ran just fine. I know the polycount in Knights Square and the park is getting quite high but I never had problems on that system.

    Anyways, yes, I will see what I can do. If I decide to do the series in Thief2 I will optimize Ancient Crown too. Otherwise you will all have to wait a few years till after Thief3

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: The Foxhole's meat dumpster
    It's such an ambitious concept that I really would like to play it, despite my feigned surliness on the subject.

    One thing to consider is that the Thief series sometimes plays wildly different on various systems...it's such a touchy game, really, susceptible to all the subtle and not-so-subtle myriad variables available. What works for me may not work for others, and vice-versa. The usual cause of my problems is my aging video card...even with a P3-450, Life of the Party was stuttering for me yesterday...but it never did that on my P2-350. Yeesh!

    So I think if a map/level/mission works well for the majority of others, then I have to conclude that I'm obviously in the minority and need to re-examine my system to figure out why. Or just sulk in the darkness and deny all hope that anything could ever get better. Either way.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales
    My video card is also well aged: Voodoo Banshee
    I normally tend to play Thief of 800*600 or 1024*768 maximum. That should obviously make a difference.
    I am aware, the level is packed full with stuff, and in the early parts of the mission there are polygon quirks. The thing is I don't think I could optimize it a lot to run more smoothly, without putting a very lot of effort in it. Not sure.

    As I said, I would really like to have Monroe's mansion a lot bigger so the actual mission objective is more fun.
    For that purpose I maybe should just wait for Thief 3.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales

    The two secrets :)

    I just replayed the mission for fun. As I said it runs okay on my 450Mhz.
    However, I suppose the main problem with speed is less the polycount and more the amount of S&R I use. Only an idea, could be wrong.

    Anyways, there are two secrets, which I often got questions about:

    1. Warren Spector's Bookstore
    The key was indeed flushed into the canals by the rain water.
    spoiler:
    However, it didn't make it out in the open but got stuck in the drain. In the waterworks there is a valve that you can turn. It opens a hatch on the northern part of the small building, somewhat below the surface of the water. Here you will find the key.

    In the bookstore there are a few more or less exciting books - and there is a secret which I will not tell you how it can be found...

    2. The third floor of the office block
    In here you can find all the 15 spells I designed for the series. However, you can only take one per each of the five levels (actually I think once you deplete one you can take the other levels, haven't checked for too long). Also, there is a zombie version of Lord British (from the Ultima games) up there guarding the "treasure".
    spoiler:
    It is tricky to get in. Works only on Novice difficulty.
    You have to follow Miss Parker once she leaves the office. Don't lose her out of sight cause then the pathfinding doesn't work and she ends up elsewhere (never figured out why). After a long trip around the level she will go into the toilet in Tylderon's bar. She teleports out but in turn there will be an ugly orc skull which acts as the key to the third floor.
    Alternatively you can load up the level DromEd

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Feb 1999
    Hi Ymochel,

    I read about your mission in this thread here and thought I should give it a try, I had not played it before, but I have not played a lot of FMs yet. The first impression was very cool.

    Ambient sounds, camvator(without the vator ), textures, the hats, the jacket of Miss Parker, the office... very sweet

    But, I've several questions, and, like others, I don't want to read all the long books thoroughly to understand what exactly is going on, especially not the armageddon book that seemed to be twice in the mission, uhm... Do I need to read them?

    Well, the first impression in the office was great. Until I had the feeling that I was running in circles; it was so bad that I looked at it in dromed to figure out several things (the secret door pedestal in the basement was where I was stuck in the gameplay - I had tossed around all crates in frustration, all but the correct one... I thought it was cute that it kept flying in the air when I had taken the crate below it away... ah yeah)

    Well, now for the questions, irritations, and the spoilers.

    spoiler:
    I just got killed by Kosh (mean of him), and since I fired all the spells in the park when I was running around in frustrated circles there... I'm also not at all sure how I made these spell items that I could access only with F1 & F2, so I can't make new "charges".

    Well, I tried to shoot him (not sure if I hit him at all... loading time of the gun was too long), so then I tried to bop him with the blackjack a few times before he ripped off my head and did what Lorcan (sp? the bad guy) from the Seventh Crystal wanted to do with the player. Erm...

    Uhm.. what is up with Miss Parker? I wacked her on the forehead in frustration (she did not teleport away in the toilet, Novice difficulty, I never let her out of my eyes. Once in the toilet, she obviously felt that she should go back to the office to stand in the door, and that she should restart the initial conversation a few times whenever I approached her in the right manner. So, no spells from the top floor for me. -- Err, I wacked her with the blackjack, and she, uhm... you know what she did. Here comes my question: Why? What is she? (In which of the long books could I find a clue?)

    I also had problems to understand what the phonecaller told me... I even don't know if that was Kosh or someone else? I made out (also with what I had seen in the dromed) that I was supposed now to walk to the park, but I could not understand the rest of the call.

    And then... err... I have no idea of whom the scroll in the park might be (that I finally found after I had used all the spells into the air and at the trees...)


    Well, I am going to give it another shot in a few minutes(*), it runs up to half an hour relatively nicely on my system before it starts to drop to 1-2 fps, but I would be thankful for tips on which of the books, papyri, and scrolls are the relevant ones to understand what is going on.


    (*) and it's not an acute case of masochism that I go and give it another shot - different than than the various times when I launched the Inverted Manse. Now, that's a mission which is always a good way to make sure that I don't touch any FMs anymore for a long time, and so I can concentrate on other things again after a few minutes in the Inverted Manse. Ah yeah... No, in this case, it's (buggy and frustrating, but also) cool. I like it, bugs or no.
    Last edited by Lytha; 27th Jul 2002 at 14:06.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales

    Lytha, very very sorry about the late reply!

    My girlfriend was here for a visit and I didn't browse these boards at all, and I had little time to read them before that even.
    Here are a few answers, although you might have found out some of that already...

    Originally posted by Lytha
    Hi Ymochel,
    I read about your mission in this thread here and thought I should give it a try, I had not played it before, but I have not played a lot of FMs yet. The first impression was very cool.

    Ambient sounds, camvator(without the vator ), textures, the hats, the jacket of Miss Parker, the office... very sweet
    Thanks

    Ok, as for the queries: no, as mentioned in my thread on the topic of books, none of the long books are necessary reads. Only short papyruses and notes contain important clues.
    As for the Armaggeddon book, that is the "bible" of the setting so to speak. There even is a book interpreting it .
    It gives a background how the city was founded etc but it is not relveant for the plot. All the history that relates to the plot will be explained by other more accessible means.

    spoiler:

    (the secret door pedestal in the basement was where I was stuck in the gameplay - I had tossed around all crates in frustration, all but the correct one... I thought it was cute that it kept flying in the air when I had taken the crate below it away... ah yeah)

    Ah, yes that is a known bug that I oughta fix.
    I don't know if it was too hard to find but I might add a hint at the secret lab below the basement somewhere.

    I just got killed by Kosh (mean of him), and since I fired all the spells in the park when I was running around in frustrated circles there... I'm also not at all sure how I made these spell items that I could access only with F1 & F2, so I can't make new "charges".

    You get the spells simply by picking them up in the park. You have the choice between three different classes, they are explained on the scroll. On Novice you get two spells instead of just one.
    There is only one charge per spell in this mission. In later missions you will gain more permanent spells.

    Well, I tried to shoot him (not sure if I hit him at all... loading time of the gun was too long), so then I tried to bop him with the blackjack a few times before he ripped off my head

    His behaviour clearly needs perfection. I didn't want to make him hostile towards the player from the beginning though so that one is correct. But he notices you way too easily, which is also why it's so hard to steal the crown from him.

    Uhm.. what is up with Miss Parker? I wacked her on the forehead in frustration (she did not teleport away in the toilet, Novice difficulty, I never let her out of my eyes. Once in the toilet, she obviously felt that she should go back to the office to stand in the door, and that she should restart the initial conversation a few times whenever I approached her in the right manner.

    Crap that She also obviously needs a lot more testing...

    Err, I wacked her with the blackjack, and she, uhm... you know what she did. Here comes my question: Why? What is she? (In which of the long books could I find a clue?)

    You can't. Who she is will be explained in later missions. I didn't want to give her an obvious "special" appearance but for those players who attacked her I wanted to show it. (Also I don't want anyone to kill her :P)

    I also had problems to understand what the phonecaller told me... I even don't know if that was Kosh or someone else? I made out (also with what I had seen in the dromed) that I was supposed now to walk to the park, but I could not understand the rest of the call.

    I think this explains why you didn't understand who wrote the letter in the park. I suppose the sound quality of the phone call isn't perfect but I like the voice acting so I will keep it like this. Not sure what could be done to make it better to understand. The objectives give you the clue what to do at least.
    I recall that the Eyes speech in Thief 1 was also damn hard to understand - especially if you're not a native speaker of English. Maybe something can be done, will think about this.

    Anyway, the guy who calls you and left the note (and spells) in the park for you is a person named Phalvach al Garond. You don't yet know who he is but he explains that he enabled Cosh to speak and write and gave him magic powers. He also tempted him to become a serial killer.


    Well, I am going to give it another shot in a few minutes(*), it runs up to half an hour relatively nicely on my system before it starts to drop to 1-2 fps,

    Hmmm, I am still a bit unsure about the performance issues. I built and tested (to some extend I did really! ) the level on my PII450 with Voodoo Banshee - definitely not a fast system these days. It ran quite okay for me at all times. I really wonder what slows it down so much for others. Anyway, the sequel will run smoother for everybody I hope

    I am glad you liked it. I will see if I find the time to bugfix it and then start working on the rest of the series

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Feb 1999

    Ymochel,

    as I said, I gave it another try, again in Normal for the possibility to get into the room upstairs of the office; this time, Ms. Parker teleported away in the toilet without any problems.

    I assume that I caused a problem in her patrol path when I opened the toilet door and tried to watch what was going on. Not too surprising actually, that she did not teleport away then. My problems last time might also have been related to me not keeping very close to her while I was chasing her on the patrol path.


    This time, it was definitely easier overall; I knew where to go and what not to do (i.e. shoot all the spells into the air in the park)

    I even read the long book this time, and the commentary. And yes, it is funny, and it added definitely character to the mission - if the player is not on the search for clues and thinks that the book contains help in form of a hidden message on page #39 or so. I think that was the problem that people had with the books: "I am stuck, I need a clue, maybe one of the books has it?" *read the first 2 pages closely, find no direct clue, start flipping the pages* "Am I supposed to read this all?!"

    After you know what is going on & after you've finished the mission once, the books add a very pleasant character to the mission.


    Cosh -
    spoiler:
    I still had a hard time with him due to the framerates (more thoughts about that later). However, I had let the Mexican Bouncer and the freshly spawned Guard alive and awake for him, and also the party guests. He teleported around now quite a lot, and I think the guards did a few damages to him which made my task easier. Sometimes, he disappeared totally (I guess he went down into the basement), then he re-appeared. I zapped him then with a "freeze" (I had read the readme.txt in the mean time and thought this might be a good idea), I think, I got caught then in his teleport field, and we went down to the basement.

    I am still not sure if that is how it is planned, but it was fun. It wouldn't have been fun without the "freeze" though, because I had a hard time to get out of his teleport-field. Hm. The rest worked fine then (I shot him again, then I tried taking the crown, and it worked.)



    The framerate problem is most certainly because of the use of S&R. When Cosh and I were in the basement, it seemed to me that he is firing the teleport stim (or similar) approx. every 15 seconds. If other objects do the same, there is always a heavy action going on, which causes the slowdown after a while; and which explains why the mission runs fine then again after a restart of Thief. I'm not sure if you are using emitters and cloning as well, like in Totality's 4th tutorial ("the magic rock marker"), but that would explain the framerate problem as well.

    It is symptomatic that the problems occured after ~30 minutes or so; then maybe enough objects were spawned or S&R stuff emitted to make the Dark Engine go to its knees.


    The mission is definitely cool, I liked it a lot!

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales
    Glad you like it!

    Heh, I am still torn over what to do now. As usual I take on too many things at once. I intend to write a long story soon after recording a couple of new songs. From September on I'll be back in uni doing my final year - lots of hard lectures and a research project. I ought to get a job too and possibly I might take an Italian language class.
    So besides writing, studying and working I also would like my social life not to disappear totally - which is why I was thinking not to install Thief on my new notebook at all. I am kindof afraid that I will not do anything other than DromEding which would be sorely bad for my academic career, interhuman relationships and of course my mental health

    But I would really like to finish the Resurgence campaign eventually and Thief3 just appears to be too far away still... I am getting weak, will install Thief now just to see how it works on this new machine

    Maybe after all you will see the full series someday...

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Feb 1999

    I would like to see how the story of the Ancient Crown is continued, but the academic career should definitely come first, of course.

    ... speaking of which, I have been neglecting a lot of stuff lately, too - thanks to dromed. :/

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales
    Hehe yes. DromEd is evil I am convinced ... evil but brilliant

    We will see how it goes. If there is some time on boring lonely nights this year, and no annoying friends dragging me to the pub (yes yes, I'd never even enter such a place unless by violent force ;P) I might end up starting up good ol' DromEd again ... and not finish till the sun rises

    Btw du sprichst doch auch Deutsch oder nicht? (wage Errinnerungen aus den fruehen Tagen dieses Forums )

  19. #19
    Taking a break
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Rampart Range
    I liked Resurgence of the Ancient Crown, you certainly created a strange new world
    which I enjoyed! When you get your real life in order, please continue!

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 37.941, -122.485
    I decided to play The Ancient Crown because I'm interested in FM's in which you don't play as Garrett. I really liked the setting as film noir meets Thief; I imagined it as taking place a century or so after the events of Thief in a world where technological advancement occured at a more constant but slower pace than in our world.

    I encountered a lot of bugs and rough spots but that's to be expected in such a technically ambitious beta. The spells and teleporting were very cool. I hope that a finalized version comes out some day, perhaps in T3 form?

    I completed all of the objectives except for "Find out why Monroe stole the crown." I think I read all of the notes in the mansion but maybe I missed something. Also, when do you receive the phone call from Phalvach al Garond?

    Diolch Ymochel!

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales
    Nos da, Taffer!
    Wyt ti'n siarad Cymraeg?
    O ble wyt ti'n mynd?

    I hope I got that right
    Work and all my hobbies, and the fact that I spent a whole year in Italy didn't help my knowledge of Yr Iaith Hen (also its grammar damn hard imo).

    Did you finish the mission?
    I suppose there might be some quirks with the objectives.

    spoiler:

    IIRC (can't check right now) the objective should be accomplished when you read the papyrus in Miss Monroe's room. The one sent by a mysterious "S". It's in the chest.
    In that room you also get the phone call by Phalvac (the phone should be ringing annoyingly loud until you pick it up). He gives you the objective to go to the park.


    Anyway, I am not 100% certain about this right now. I will load it up again later and check - but unless I'm really mistaken this should be the answer to your question.

    As for the continuation of the series (and final version of this first level):
    I have many ideas which I'd know how to do in DromEd. Also, the spells are all working already etc. I still haven't got much time to DromEd though.
    On the other hand, I played a few levels of UT2003 the other day, and that engine is amazing! I can already see why they chose to use it for Thief3 and DX2. Also it's supposed to be very flexible. Maybe I will just use my editing time on practising UnrealEd so I can finally do this series when I get Thief3...
    We will see. I will let you folks know

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 37.941, -122.485
    I think I know what the problem is. There's a locked room on the upstairs floor that I guess is Monroe's room and which I haven't been able to enter. I found a house key but it doesn't work on that door. Advice on how to get inside?

    Thanks!

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales
    Yes that's the room.
    spoiler:

    You can reach it by a secret ladder from the basement. In the basement, at the entrance to the bootlegging laboratory (under that marble altar-like thingie, the switch for that one is behind some crates) there is a door that leads to the ladder.
    The door is locked but it will be opened after you meet Cosh for the first time.


    Hope that helps

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: 37.941, -122.485
    Yes, that was it, thank you. However time to add another bug to the list:
    spoiler:
    The door to the ladder room remained closed and locked even though I had already seen Cosh and emptied the safe of valuables. I went down to the safe room again and this time the door opened and I was able to finish. I had gone to the park on my own without the phone call just because I was exploring more of the city and that's how I ended up completing the objectives out of order.
    Cheers!
    Last edited by Norman Druart; 30th Aug 2002 at 16:36.

  25. #25
    Member
    Registered: Jan 1999
    Location: Cardiff, Capitol of Wales
    How did you get in the park before the call?
    This is a bug, it shouldn't be possible.

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