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Thread: Bolt & Arrow Testing

  1. #1

    Bolt & Arrow Testing

    Starwhores & I ended up testing arrows vs. bolts.
    This is what we found.

    To Kill a Guard:
    3 arrows in the back
    5 arrows in the chest

    To Kill a Thief:
    5 bolts in the back
    5 bolts in the chest

    The testing was done standing about 3 meters apart (rough ingame estimate there).
    I think it clearly demonstrates why some people consider sniping a problem. No only do the thieves have a better range weapon, it works it's wonders from hiding.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: a tract of land designated for a purpose

    Re: Bolt & Arrow Testing

    This is not in line with the numbers Dalai posted. If that's the case, they should definitely be tweaked. Dalai has said that the bow does from 1-30 points, based on how fast the arrow is travelling when it hits the target. One presumes that a full draw is needed for full speed. It's also possible that the speed drops off over distance, so it may be impossible to get that 30 points at a longer range, something that apparently isn't a factor with the crossbow.

    Some questions on the bow figures:
    • Did you make sure the bow was fully drawn?
    • Did you ensure you weren't hitting the head's collision cylinder?

    It also seems that guards don't get the benefit of additional damage when attacking from behind. I think they should.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Lying at bottom of Deck 1 elev
    Let's suspend disbelief for a minute here...

    You have strafe keys on your keyboard. These keys allow you to strafe. If you hit these keys, you move sideways. This makes you hard to hit. Understand?

    You have a faster rate of fire. This means you can fire faster. Your weapon doesn't have a "warning" noise like the bow does; your weapon fires the instance you click your mouse. You have roughly equivalent range... and oh! notice how the reticle changes into those cool looking hash marks! Hey, they look just like the hash marks on the grenade sight of an M-16! Think that they might somehow help you aim? Good so far?

    Your weapon can shoot little attachable flares, bolts that make the enemy really slow, and fireballs of doom and destruction that are a severe pain in the ass. Still with me?

    You have teammates who are apparently much better shots than you, that have no idea where you could be, much less know you are dueling with a sniper.

    You can always get more bolts. There's a little thing called a "supply chest" that gives you more bolts when you click on it.

    You can take just as much damage as your opponent, then can drink little potions that allow you to take more damage.

    You could wipe the floor with the competition by not wasting precious money on stupid flaming balls of doom when you can get Tag and Para bolts, which work better for less money, to get free kills with a sword, which works better than a stupid crossbow anyway.
    End Suspend Disbelief.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: a tract of land designated for a purpose
    I think the [rant][/rant] tags may have been appropriate there....

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Lying at bottom of Deck 1 elev
    I'm just in a bad mood.

  6. #6
    LOL@SNAFU

    That was a great rant!

    I just posted the numbers I got, the conclusion is up to you.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2000
    Location: Ontario, Canada

    Re: Re: Bolt & Arrow Testing

    Originally posted by LaughingRat
    It also seems that guards don't get the benefit of additional damage when attacking from behind. I think they should.
    Guards do get additional damage when attacking from behind, at least they do with the sword(Phae did a little experiment one day).

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The place where I make comics.
    My conclusion is xbow sux. No matter WHAT thief bow damage is.

    Let me buy special armor piercer/bone crusher bolts at 75 gold / 5 or something that does damage (3 hit kill, from the front).
    Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Bouclier Canadien
    Rgr that, ok so i should shot the back of guards ...thx
    Anyway the head is better 1 shot that is all... faster that way

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Vault 13
    Actually, I found that the guards crossbow aim is slightly off. It fires about half an inch over the aim reticle from a distance of about 10 foot...
    Might be a thing with my resolution though (800x600ish).
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..."

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The place where I make comics.
    I got that too V12US.
    Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: ‘st Ra'LŽur
    I think the crossbow should fire faster.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: Ohio
    Originally posted by Garlisk
    My conclusion is xbow sux. No matter WHAT thief bow damage is.

    Let me buy special armor piercer/bone crusher bolts at 75 gold / 5 or something that does damage (3 hit kill, from the front).
    I believe I showed you the right way to use the xbow today in Spiders. I can't believe you still won that though.
    Signed,
    Richard M. Nixon.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The place where I make comics.
    yeah, but you didn't kill me with the xbow. You para'd me and then sworded me.

    Thats fine, but I want to use the xbow as a weapon, even if I have to buy special damaging bolts or a crossbow upgrade.

    And notice those key words...I still won
    Signatures? We don't need no stinking signatures.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: Ohio
    Originally posted by Garlisk
    yeah, but you didn't kill me with the xbow. You para'd me and then sworded me.

    Thats fine, but I want to use the xbow as a weapon, even if I have to buy special damaging bolts or a crossbow upgrade.

    And notice those key words...I still won
    Uh yeah, it was 2 vs 1 guard in Spiders. Geeeee, WHO'DA THOUGHT IT????
    Signed,
    Richard M. Nixon.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: a tract of land designated for a purpose
    Originally posted by -=V12US=-
    Actually, I found that the guards crossbow aim is slightly off. It fires about half an inch over the aim reticle from a distance of about 10 foot...
    Might be a thing with my resolution though (800x600ish).
    It's not "off". You'll notice that the reticle has a central circle and lines above and below. Those lines are for adjusting your aim, based on range. It's very similar to some sites actually in use for bows and crossbows. For targets farther away, you use lower lines, for those closer, you use higher ones. At point blank, it doesn't really matter....

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Vault 13
    Originally posted by LaughingRat
    It's not "off". You'll notice that the reticle has a central circle and lines above and below. Those lines are for adjusting your aim, based on range. It's very similar to some sites actually in use for bows and crossbows. For targets farther away, you use lower lines, for those closer, you use higher ones. At point blank, it doesn't really matter....
    Yes, but I know little people who've had the pleasure of shooting with a crossbow around here.
    Most of the people who play Thievery have played other FPS's before, in which the goal is to simply center the target and press fire... Now I know all about trajectories and gravity, so it's only natural to assume that your bolt will drop to the ground at a longer range, and I will make up for that by aiming higher.

    My point is, it took me several weeks before I found out how it really worked, I just dismissed it as lag before that. It might be easier to just incorporate a center-fire system than to use an intricate realistic reticle which only serves to confuse newbies.

    Just my 0.02 loot.
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..."

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Maryland, USA
    Mad Gerbil & StarWhores. Would you mind repeating your experiment, looking for the following?:

    Once per circumstance, count how many health drops were subtracted from one direct hit.

    # hits to frontside of head of guard
    # hits to frontside of head of thief

    # hits to backside of head of guard
    # hits to backside of head of thief

    Crossbow fire rate (shoot 10 and average that)
    Thief bow fire rate (shoot 10 at maximum and average that)

    --

    I know this thread is in response to the thread that started talking about hits and stuff. I still don't know how I died from one shot at 60% health. Ok, to be fair, maybe I was really at (at the least) 45% health. Going by Mad Gerbil's numbers, 3 hits to kill a guard from the back is an average of 33%health per hit. That's why I asked for the actual damage per hit, because this number could be around 48% (48% + 48% + last arrow to kill).

    Thanks a lot, Mad Gerbil and StarWhores for your tests!

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: a tract of land designated for a purpose
    Originally posted by Buho
    Mad Gerbil & StarWhores. Would you mind repeating your experiment, looking for the following?:

    Once per circumstance, count how many health drops were subtracted from one direct hit.
    A more precise test would be to have an additional guard and thief present to record the ACTUAL health after each hit

  20. #20
    I've been unfortunate to occasionally get all my dmg from one xbow hit. It does 24 dmg, no more no less.
    Fear the Mercs!!!

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Lying at bottom of Deck 1 elev
    Originally posted by -=V12US=-
    My point is, it took me several weeks before I found out how it really worked, I just dismissed it as lag before that. It might be easier to just incorporate a center-fire system than to use an intricate realistic reticle which only serves to confuse newbies.
    Then WHO becomes the sniper? If you can't deal with real life in a game, then what the hell good are you?

    Everything is affected by gravity; if that is not intuitive to you, then my physics teacher would LOVE to thrash... excuse me... put you on display, as a world-class IDIOT.

    Welcome to the real world.

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Arcata, CA
    For Christ's sake, it's just a game. Don't take it so personal!

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: a tract of land designated for a purpose
    Originally posted by Big Brother
    For Christ's sake, it's just a game. Don't take it so personal!
    Look elsewhere in this forum. He admits he's PMS'ing.

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Vault 13
    Originally posted by SNAFU
    Then WHO becomes the sniper? If you can't deal with real life in a game, then what the hell good are you?

    Everything is affected by gravity; if that is not intuitive to you, then my physics teacher would LOVE to thrash... excuse me... put you on display, as a world-class IDIOT.

    Welcome to the real world.
    That wasn't my point, get a clue and read the message next time you dolt.
    "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro..."

  25. #25
    I can hit a guard in the main area of spiders (Apartments) sitting crouched in one corner, and therefor unable to see the guard when i fire. The guard is at the middle door on the oppesite side... Smack, "Head shot!"

    In thief 2 i could hit the torches at the smugglers ship in mission 2 standing outside the warehouse.


    Anyways, all you need is to pratice with the bow/xbow and you will soon be sniping targets 100m+ away

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