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Thread: Thief FM "The Bluecoat's Training Facility" Mar. 11/03

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: House of Sand and Fog
    Originally posted by Spamlet
    Hmm.

    I wonder if he'll want to put that review on his site.

    He has reviews on his site? Yeah, a bit extreme perhaps.. But you people forced it on me with all this positiveness! I had to bring balance to the force.. <-- See, I'm just a Keeper (or Jedi ) in training! It's all your fault! .. Heh..

    deadman.
    "I cannot see anything admirable in stupidity, injustice and sheer incompetence in high places, and there is too much of all three in the present administration." -M.M.Kaye, The Far Pavilions

  2. #27
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:
    oh thank you very much for your FLAMING CRITISISM! and for tearing down the last possible thread of humanness left in my dieing body, you killer! DIE!



    no jk. Actually i really do welcome critisism along with compliments, after all, only critisism will bring about improvement.

    Ok, about the outside, i know its dull and that was somthing that was on my mind to do before i wrapped my mission up but i never really got to decorating the outside to extensivley. The trees were about as much time as i wanted to spend, and i hoped that the fountains did help slightly. The armory, the armory.....yeah, dull, very dull, infact originally i intended on making it into a maze about 10 times that size (i can't remmember why i wanted to do that now). Anyway, don't think all the time spent with that post you made is all going to waste because as of this afternoon, i have decided to redo alot of the mistakes and i have already received 2 or 3 pm's with some of the same flaws mentioned in them and i do have a list handy that i am writing stuff down to improve. I should have the (improved version) ready for download with alot of the flaws fixed. I do want this fm to be PERFECT because it is my first and last. Also, you should try fm building some time, its actually quiet gratifying spepecally when i have nice people that critisize nicley and compliments. Thanks guys! look for my updated version soon!

    Timmy

    p.s shitty spelling = exhausted after work, sorry

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Shropshire
    I think your problem is that you're trying to see and highlight the key and then grab it. That's not how I got it. I read in a note some where that it should be under Watts bed. I also found out from other missions that you can frob and grab something you can't see. It's like the program knows when it's highlighted even though you don't. So, just keep clicking the right mouse button as you move around the bed. Sooner of later you'll get it, and as soon as you do, there'll be a sound and it will appear in your inventory. This is how I got it. But like I said
    Thanks, you learn something every day.
    spoiler:
    It's actually under McKay's bed and just about visible against the pattern of the carpet.


    Just need the document and to get out now. Where is it?
    spoiler:
    The scroll in the library seemed to fit the bill but nothing checked off.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: House of Sand and Fog
    Originally posted by Thief13x
    no jk. Actually i really do welcome critisism along with compliments, after all, only critisism will bring about improvement.
    I'm glad you see it that way, and didn't feel the urge to become defensive or just tell me to 'fack off' I think the mistakes I notice in FMs wouldn't build themselves up so much in my mind if all I usually read about are compliments and kudos to FM authors. That is all good and well, but, as you said, for the most part one can't improve something without someone being brave and saying "it wasn't perfect" I still must apologize however, things always come out twisted when they exit my mouth.. As I said, the FM has possibilities, it's just that I didn't feel it when I played it this time around.

    Ok, about the outside, i know its dull and that was somthing that was on my mind to do before i wrapped my mission up but i never really got to decorating the outside to extensivley. The trees were about as much time as i wanted to spend, and i hoped that the fountains did help slightly. The armory, the armory.....yeah, dull, very dull, infact originally i intended on making it into a maze about 10 times that size (i can't remmember why i wanted to do that now). Anyway, don't think all the time spent with that post you made is all going to waste because as of this afternoon, i have decided to redo alot of the mistakes


    and i have already received 2 or 3 pm's with some of the same flaws mentioned in them
    Ahh, so the rest of the taffers who offer criticism are spineless worms eh? Ah-hah! The king of the worms, that's what they'll call me! The only meanie bold enough to speak in the open

    I do want this fm to be PERFECT because it is my first and last. Also, you should try fm building some time, its actually quiet gratifying
    Trust me, I have tried editing/building, and it is quite invigorating, if annoying once you run into the many bugs/limitations. If I had more time and didn't have college to worry about I would be learning a lot more and making progress in my various little experiments/building sprees. I'll be crossing my fingers the editor for Thief III will be more user-friendly and much less buggy! Gah, I would probably just want to build pretty architecture anyway, but then I could always hand it on to an expert to finish up Nah, who would want to bother with my piece of shite?! Heh, good luck, I wish the best.

    deadman.
    "I cannot see anything admirable in stupidity, injustice and sheer incompetence in high places, and there is too much of all three in the present administration." -M.M.Kaye, The Far Pavilions

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Location: attic
    Originally posted by Ottensen

    Just need the document and to get out now. Where is it?
    spoiler:
    Check the locked footlocker in that room (officers sleeping hall)


    - schma

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Sulphur, Louisiana, USA
    the document you seek is in


    spoiler:
    the same room where u got the workshop key i think its in Watt's trunk

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Minnesota, USA
    Thanks for the loot tips Tacky. I complete missed the
    spoiler:
    six bottles at the bar! Ring and coins in the locker room.
    until I read your post , went back and did a more thorough sweep.
    The problem is choice...

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Apr 1999
    Location: Portland, OR USA

    On Guards and Bunkbeds

    Placing guards in bunk beds is a no no: placing them on the bottom bed is a no no and placing them on the top is a no no.. Unless you teleport them when they wake up they'll likely be stuck and this makes for one tough guard to blackjack..
    Actually, I quite enjoyed this room - saw it as a challenge. What I did was this:

    spoiler:
    For the sleeping guards: if they were on the top bunk, no worries. Hold the blackjack high, lean forward, and bonk, they're sleeping harder then ever. For the sleepers on the bottom, do something very subtle to wake them up (try jumping one by the door to the room). When they settle down, jump on one of the two tables, then leap to the top of the nearest bunkbed. They will not notice you. For the ones standing inside the bed, their head pokes up just enough to whap with the blackjack. For the ones on the top bunks who woke before you got them earlier, blackjack as usual. And for the ones who woke and stood beside the bed, well, that's obvious


    I had a good time with this mission - it showed attention to detail and planning and had an interesting story line to lead the way. I went along in what I thought was quite an organic path and managed to find the scroll with the clues for the safe early enough that no backtracking was necessary. I also didn't have any trouble with the clues, but that's just me

    Thanks for the hard work! I'm off to find the rest of the loot

    Cheers,
    -M
    Your mileage may vary

  9. #34
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:
    Hey, sorry about not replying sooner, i just noticed this. I can anwser all your questions for you but it would spoil it for the rest of the players who havn't finished yet. If you are confused about somthing, or want to see the way i made it to be done, go here http://geocities.com/thief13x/theblu...ainingfacility there you will find a link to a walkthrough that will explain anything. I do apoligise for the "# of men facing each other" thing. I do realise that was a bit confusing but if you have any furthur questions, the walkthrough should be able to help . If you still have questions, feel free to email me at Thief13x@yahoo.com. And as always, Thanks for playin my mission!

    Timmy

  10. #35
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:
    hey, thanks m! I did work really hard to pay as much attention to detail as possible. Thanks for da compliment!

    Timmy

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: NY
    Hey Timmy,

    Don't take my criticism about the men facing each other wrong. I just had to point it out. As I said, this was excellent for a 1st mission, and it would still be considered good if it was a 2nd or 3rd mission. I know you said you aren't going to make any more missions. I hope you reconsider. You seem to be good at mission making, and if you don't make any more, it's a loss to all of us. But, do what you have to.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: House of Sand and Fog

    Re: On Guards and Bunkbeds

    Originally posted by Melissa
    Actually, I quite enjoyed this room - saw it as a challenge. What I did was this:
    Ok ok, I admit that I woke them up rather forcefully But still, it's the principle that counts, and besides, where are all the beds for the night guards if these guys don't have night duty? Or they just switch (I haven't been through quite the entire level yet, there may be another room I haven't found) beds when one wakes up and another goes to sleep? How convenient For me, much of the mission was just too damn copy & pasted for my likes.. especially the excessive placement of manuals on each bed, each corridor of the bottom floor with the same table & vase, all those swords & bows with 10 arrows lined up, .. You couldn't believe how annoyed I was at that.. All those arrows *goes crazy*. And by the way, you forgot to include extras in the 'oblong crates' as you put in a note. I thought, "Hey, cool.. I guess he's going to be nice after all" .. IMO, it was super cool when Purah put that holy water vial in that crate in the museum.. I wish people hid goodies in crates more often! (it could be quite tedious to 'search' through everyone by bashing them all to bits though.. Maybe if they one was marked specially and spoken of in a diary or scroll somewhere). Err, in any event .. I still stand behind my views that many areas were textured poorly or dully and the excessive cut & pasting interfers with the realism of the mission. I'm not saying that he (?) didn't put a lot of work into the mission, I'm just reiterating that it doesn't feel real for me, and I'm probably the only one. He he, now we see which is more powerful: the forces of Evil or the forces of Good. Join the Dark Side or die!

    deadman. *moans like a zombie*
    "I cannot see anything admirable in stupidity, injustice and sheer incompetence in high places, and there is too much of all three in the present administration." -M.M.Kaye, The Far Pavilions

  13. #38
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:
    Well, i created this mission for people to enjoy, not to dislike. If it is a burden upon somone to complete my mission, by all means delete it. Before doing so however, you might consider checking the underground for my update. I did make a bunch of minor changes, plus a few major ones to my map, might just find out that it isn't so "unreal" after all. One of them that im sure many people will be happy to discover is that i delete i think, 7 sleeping guards in the barracks, and now only 3 or 4 remain. I hope you reconsider, check for my update at the Underground, should be names "The Bluecoat's Training Facility (Updated Version)" or V2 or somthing like that, but it should be up some time before the weekend hopefully.

    Thief13x aka Timmy

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: House of Sand and Fog

    One last word, if I may..

    Geez, didn't mean to offend. Also, I didn't mean it as 'unreal' in the sense that I suspect you're thinking, just that the realism for me was lacking.. Or perhaps interrupted, especially by the matching pairs of male/female AIs standing opposite each other, bunks full of sleeping guards (not quite as disturbing as the last of course), and some of the other placement/repetition of objects that I felt took away from the atmosphere. I've already mentioned this all so I'll try not to repeat myself. And I don't mean (again) to only mention things I disliked, or only make out that I disliked it wholly; if anything I am trying to balance the well-deserved compliments with (hopefully) constructive criticism. If I haven't said it already, I would frankly be let down and insulted if I only received compliments by my first or last FM (assuming I finish/release any).. Even if they were almost flawless, I would want the criticism so I could improve upon my works, or at least have the intended effect of preventing me from getting a 'big head'. Not to say any of this applies to you, but in general I am sometimes disturbed by this.. Take for example The Two Towers. After seeing this movie the first time I was quite shocked and surprised by the additions and alterations. I belong to a community dedicated to the worship of J.R.R. Tolkien, but when I went to vent my feelings or look for like-minded people, I only saw reviews of worship and eternal praise directed towards Peter Jackson, the actors, and the movie itself. I won't draw this on much longer, but my point is that it is a sick thing to twist something around to only seem a positive or negative thing. And as such, although I tried to name a few things I enjoyed about your FM, my criticisms are meant to be read in concert with the praise. If you grasped upon my every word and ignored or refused to read the other posts, you would surely be depressed or at least burdened with the thought that your FM wasn't well received. And that's just as bad as only receiving or reading the fond words. So, in closing, and I apologize for going on like this, I wish you the best of luck in the future (in your DromEding and ventures in the 'real world') and hope you do not see me as attempting to assail your many hours spent in the creation of your very first fan mission nor that I shall bear any ill will towards you in the future should you take up the tools of The Builder again. I will be looking forward to your updated mission, and I will try to reflect upon what I said, with the newfound approach at equal parts praise and criticism in any future comments I make about any one mission. Believe me, I have tried hard, but it unfortunately remains that I am proof of the unforgiving and baised Thief player. Oftentimes I have downloaded missions, played them, and almost immediately stopped -- almost in disgust -- when I enter an environment that doesn't match my ideas of what Thief should look like, or more commonly doesn't have sufficient architecture or texture use for my tastes. Don't get me wrong; this doesn't diminish any of the respect I hold for authors who while away the hours building something just for me, the selfish and greedy gamer, and I really wish I could just play an FM from the point-of-view that the gameplay is the most important aspect, but I know this to be wishful thinking in my case. Know that I have felt this way (and in many cases, more strongly about my criticisms) many times before and will unfortunately come away from FMs in the future with negative experiences and memories. Don't let it get to you though, and again, good luck

    deadman.
    "I cannot see anything admirable in stupidity, injustice and sheer incompetence in high places, and there is too much of all three in the present administration." -M.M.Kaye, The Far Pavilions

  15. #40
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:
    Thanks man, I do not hold any ill will tward anyone about critisism and as i honestly stated before, i welcome critisism as well as compliments. Sorry if i sounded slightley "negative" in my last post, i was rather pissed at my boss at the moment . Thanks for the tips, and hopefully one of these days i will get around to making another ThiefFm (althought it might be the ThiefIII editor im using by then). Thanks!

    Thief13x
    ThiefFm Editor, Producer, and Designer of The Bluecoat's Training Facility. Sequal Fm, -> The Eye's Betrayal. 36% complete ==> CANCELLED.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2000
    Location: Cowtown
    Interesting review deadman.. but I only have one thing to say: paragraphs are your friend.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: House of Sand and Fog
    Originally posted by doaal
    Interesting review deadman.. but I only have one thing to say: paragraphs are your friend.
    Cheers doaal Unfortunately I am often too lazy to write or try to separate things into paragraphs (and besides, who's going to read any of my words?), so it can perhaps be explained by that I dunno, in most of my e-mails/journal posts I just use one big 'paragraph' (although I wouldn't even call it that. If only I could discredit the use of paragraphs altogether ). Besides, my thoughts have been so disjointed these last few years (starting to get really scary, believe me) that I figure no one can understand it in the first place Who knows..

    deadman.
    "I cannot see anything admirable in stupidity, injustice and sheer incompetence in high places, and there is too much of all three in the present administration." -M.M.Kaye, The Far Pavilions

  18. #43
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:
    Hey man, thanks a mill. Maybe someday i might find the time to make another thief mission, and all the compliments i have received from this one has almost forced me to reconnsider. However, it did take so much of my time up that i didn't really have a chance to do anything on the computer besides build on my map in my free time. And most of all i do enjoy playing fm's and the seperation was hard. Withdrawl people WITHDRAWL! it was very difficult to stop playing thief for 6 months
    ThiefFm Editor, Producer, and Designer of The Bluecoat's Training Facility. Sequal Fm, -> The Eye's Betrayal. 36% complete ==> CANCELLED.

  19. #44
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:

    "The Bluecoat's Training Facility V2" FM

    Hi, i just wanted to inform everyone that the "The Bluecoat's Training Facility V2" patch is now up for download! I have made a bunch of minor improvements along with a few major ones. I also fixed the textures in the kitchen and got my picture to work that is posted in the vault, and in the dining hall. For those of you who have already played it and felt it was a good mission, it might not be worth it to go download and play it again, but if you found sorta let down, this might make you a little more enthusiastic about it. Anyway, i hope you all check it out and enjoy it. When you get the link to my website, hit the first download button and not the alternative because that is the old one.

    Also, if somone would be willing to upload my mission via ftp to the alternative website i would really appriciate it. Thanks

    Timmy
    ThiefFm Editor, Producer, and Designer of The Bluecoat's Training Facility. Sequal Fm, -> The Eye's Betrayal. 36% complete ==> CANCELLED.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Hong Kong
    Downloading.

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2003
    Location: Singapore
    Hey... I can't seem to quickload the game anymore. It just crashes back to the desktop. Any adivce?

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: ohio
    Just finished Bluecoat's Training Facility......good job Thief13x. Very challenging as I had to seek help on the Forum to finish it (damn workroom key was a tough find.) I think it was an exceptionally good effort as it was your first attempt. Please don't let it be your last.

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2003
    Location: Singapore
    Ugh... I downloaded V2 and whenever I try and quickload, the game crashes back to the desktop. Anyone can help me on this?

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Earth Prime
    I do want this fm to be PERFECT because it is my first and last.
    Hmm ... your note in the vault, Thief13X , seems to hint that you're actually working on another FM. As for Perfection ... well, you can always be certain someone will find something that they don't like no matter how good it is. And even if you do get to the point that you think it's perfect, you'll look at it again in several months from now and think ¨if I change this or that I can make this FM even better.¨ That someone would actually devote their time and effort to give us taffers FMs to play FOR FREE never ceases to amaze me. Keep 'em coming.

    Incidently, the novices in the bedroom appear to be a row of women facing a row of men so the answer re: number of men facing each other would remain unchanged.

  25. #50
    Sneaky1Kenobi
    Guest
    I can't find Constantines Sword!!! Any help?

    By the way, kudos Thief13x for actually completing a mission. Mine is forever in some incomplete stage or the other. You have done what many taffers cannot - actually complete and publish a mission! Good work! Its funny - I look back on the areas of my mission that I built earlier and I groan with contempt at my errors and choices. You really do get better with more practice and time devoted to building (at least I hope so or I am in real trouble)!

    Great job - fun mission!

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