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Thread: Death's Cold Embrace: Status

  1. #26
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Some of your suggestions are impossible or very difficult to do, they're just part of how the Dark engine works - for example, having AI's in a noisy location be less sensitive to Garrett's noises. Having all windows be transparent will usually kill the engine and lead to all kinds of clipping and complexity problems. And having all buildings being accessible is sometimes impossible in larger missions, there are limits on terrain brushes, lights and objects.

    On doors which aren't doors, I agree they should be objects when the Dromed limits allow for them to be objects, although I think doors which represent the boundary of the gamespace intended by the author should be unfrobbable. Otherwise, if a door is frobbable but locked, how will the player know not to bother searching every nook and cranny for a key to open it? I think that's more frustrating than coming across a door which I can't frob.

    I disagree that there should necessarily be more innocents walking the streets than night watch. Since Garrett typically does his business in the dead of night, when most normal people are home asleep, I don't think it's reasonable to expect streets full of people going about their business. Naturally, the context of a mission could dictate otherwise.

    I agree with two of your suggestions - AI's should turn lights back on when they notice they're off, if they reasonably have the ability to do so (i.e. a lightswitch). I plan to add that to the mansion in this mission. Also, AI's who move around alot is good - not only more realistic and immersive, but it also makes ghosting easier (as well as more exciting) as long as it's implemented in a thoughtful manner. It's still realistic, though, for some guards to be at stationary posts, although they could still be made to fidget more, or even walk around the room every so often. I'm going to try and do this as well in DCE.

  2. #27
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: House of Sand and Fog
    Yandros of course brings up some good points. I think someone, mayhaps by the name of Dracip, *cough cough*, needs some proper schooling on what can and can't be done in DromEd . Heck, we'd ALL like a huge city with EVERY frickin' building accessible, but Dark is an old engine, and love it as we do, some weaknesses it has (in the words of Yoda).. With loading zones (arrgh) and the new engine, we may be able to build missions with higher complexity and more accessible buildings, but who knows. I'd suggest downloading a few Morrowind mods, Dracip if you want to enter every entrance . About passersby in the night streets, I think it would actually be neat to have a few maids, peasants, nobles even right within Garrett's view as the mission starts. They could all be walking very busily out of sight, where they are teleported out, and a few thug-like characters start making the rounds (thieves, vagrants), but totally oblivious to Garrett's presence unless he does something to them. It would be neat to actually watch the point where regular people go indoors and those of a lesser ilk start their business activities .. *sigh* ahh, that'd be nice. It definitely wouldn't be normal for 'regular folk' to be strolling around when Garrett's about, though.. At least not permanently, as I stated above. Aah, and you could have a clock tolling the hour just when the mission starts/the AI are teleported out.

    deadman.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2003
    Location: Still hoarding rope arrows
    We can ALL probably use a little education in Dromed.

    I tried to build a mission like that Lots of streets, buildings, AI. It started off about pretty big, then got cut down to about 600x800 units (half the original size) I originally wanted every building to be accessible ... friendly AI up until something happened (like a KO or something)...windows everywhere ... It sounded good, but was not buildable that way. Now only about 1 of 5 buildings is accessible, only a few windows, some neutral AI... It is a shadow of its intended self. One day it might actually be done ... I'm still building that thing ...slowly....

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: House of Sand and Fog
    Originally posted by Moghedian
    We can ALL probably use a little education in Dromed.
    No, what I'm talking about is some real general statements, such as:
    • EVERY building can't be made accessible in a large mission.
    • EVERY room/area can't have tons of objects and lights to make it feel lived in or more 'real'.
    • EVERY bit of architecture can't have tons of detail in it; there will probably be a few blocky areas or arches of little detail.
    • EVERY window can't be transparent.
    • The ENTIRE frickin' level can't be made viewable at one time without crashing Thief (i.e., for those who say "Why did you place that wall/building right there? The view would be so nice, here...").
    • Every rooftop can't be made accessible for the same reason (unless some brushes with sky textures are used to block out other areas)


    Those are a few that come to mind.. Again, if we all collectively agree we want huge environs with each building accessible, we should collectively migrate over to Morrowind modding (or use an engine with similar capabilities) .

    deadman.

  5. #30
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep

    Dear diary...

    I got the first installment of Slyfoxx's voicework yesterday, and well, you all know how talented he is... all I can say is WOW! You guys are in for a treat. He's as good at other characters as he is at Garrett.

    Progress is slow but steady. Real life has been very busy lately and doesn't appear to be letting up on the headlock, so progress will continue to be slow. Slowing me down even more (but in this case it's a good thing)... I'll probably be splitting my Thief time over the next few weeks with helping AsyluM get his Beta finished (I just mailed him, finally). That's OK, though... it will give Poly time to finish his sequel in time for a concurrent release.

    As for DCE, all I'll share this week are a couple of new screens:

    Ballroom
    Sitting Room
    Death's Cold Embrace - Info and screenshots

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2004
    Location: Ireland
    Originally posted by Yandros
    AI's who move around alot is good - not only more realistic and immersive, but it also makes ghosting easier (as well as more exciting) as long as it's implemented in a thoughtful manner.
    Easier? Try possible.

    I have played many really good fms, where the only real negative thing was that it just wasn't possible.

    I love ghosting; the master thief enters, finds and takes what he/she wants, and then leaves without anyone even knowing that anyone was there until long after he/she was gone.

    But when some npc just stands there, unmoving, in a position to make it impossible to go where you need to without being seen, it reduces, for me at least, the whole thief concept, and I just play that part like any other fps.

    Originally posted by deadman
    I think someone... needs some proper schooling on what can and can't be done in DromEd
    Damn right. I have absolutely no idea what can and can't be done.

    That is why I simply listed everything I would like to see.
    My logic was that Yandros, and any other fm-maker / amazing individual, would read it, disgard the elements that can't be done or they don't want to do, and maybe discover something they hadn't thought to implement or weren't going to because it would be alot of effort, but would consider doing if people really wanted it.

    If I knew dromed, if I had the time to learn it and wasn't totally disheartened from trying because of masterpieces like ominous bequest, ttgm etc. I wouldn't have listed some of the things I did and would be working on my own fm.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Love those new screenies Yandros. Nice work on the Arches in the Ballroom. I love details like that as you should know by now. (Don't slack on those details) I want to see FM's that make me go WOW!
    Last edited by sluggs; 14th Apr 2004 at 12:12.

  8. #33
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Thanks, but those are Polygon's arches. All I did was add the gas chandelier and retexture the floor.

  9. #34
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep

    Time to revive this thread...

    Well, Deadly Shadows sidetracked me for a while, but for the last month or so I've been spending much of my free time working on DCE1. Polygon has made huge strides on DCE2, and the two missions are coming enough into synch that we'd like to release them together (either in a single archive or as two separate releases, not sure yet).

    I've almost finished with the new areas I wanted to add to Poly's original mansion, and we have all the voice work from Slyfoxx needed for the conversations. I hope to be ready to proceeed with the scripting and whatnot fairly soon, as I'm pretty burned out on the new area work.

    Here are a couple of new screenies... sorry they're not amazing or anything, just the servant's quarters and a storeroom from the new basement - but I haven't even portalized the main part of the mansion in weeks now.



    Death's Cold Embrace - Info and screenshots

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Looks awesome! I can't wait to try it!

    That right light in the second screenshot is awesome! Well-done!

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Inside at last...
    I beg pardon. C5... what mission is that?

    BTW, Nice shots! And I love the title. Very stylish.
    IF YOU DO IT, DO IT WITH STYLE

  12. #37
    Archivist
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Museum of the Ancients
    Damn those screenshots are brilliant.
    Youre a very busy guy with making fanmissions Yandros. Death's Cold Embrace, Curse of the Carnival, King Abedzen's Tomb, The Circulation of Shadows, Clue, and St. Francis' Folly. 6 fm's in progress, where do you get the inspiration from?
    You are really a valuable addition for the thief fanmission community and I hope we can play all of your upcoming fanmission in the future. For now, good luck and I cant wait to play this mission.
    Last edited by The Phantom; 15th Jul 2004 at 18:34.

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Faceless? Dat's Dario's!

  14. #39
    Archivist
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Museum of the Ancients
    Argh. Sluggs your right! How stupid! Sorry, I must be more tired then I thought ...Editting...
    Last edited by The Phantom; 15th Jul 2004 at 18:38.

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    That's OK. I'm like that all the time, never mind when i'm tired!

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by Fallen+Keeper
    I beg pardon. C5... what mission is that?

    BTW, Nice shots! And I love the title. Very stylish.

    C5 either refers to the 5th generation of Corvettes, or the Contest 5 missions.

  17. #42
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Wow, you must have read back to the first post... well, as sluggs can attest, I didn't stay in hibernation very long... Just can't stay away from this great place.

    When Poly gets back from vacation, I'm going to bug him to let me post a few screenshots from Act II... he gave me Beta3 a few days ago and it's incredible...
    Last edited by Yandros; 15th Jul 2004 at 21:42.

  18. #43
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Quote Originally Posted by The Phantom
    Death's Cold Embrace, Curse of the Carnival, King Abedzen's Tomb, The Circulation of Shadows, Clue, and St. Francis' Folly. 6 fm's in progress, where do you get the inspiration from?
    The depths of my dark mind.

    Seriously, if I had more free time I'd have finished all those by now. I miss my college days when I actually had hours of free time every day (after finishing my studies, of course )... I've already put several mission in the attic. I really wanted to finish Garrett and the Purple Crayon but something had to give. I'm worried now that St. Francis will be the next one to get axed, and I really don't want to do that... guess I'll finally get around to it someday. I suppose it is kind of silly to have so many irons in the fire, but at least then I have some choices when I burn out on the mission I'm working on at the moment. I think the mission I'm most looking forward to completing and releasing is CoS... it's my own little Cradle.
    [/ramble]
    Death's Cold Embrace - Info and screenshots

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: arizona
    Wow, Yandros... The two items that really stand out are the fluorescent light and the winter portrait above the bed. I'll be staring at those awhile when I'm playing.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros
    Wow, you must have read back to the first post... well, as sluggs can attest, I didn't stay in hibernation very long... Just can't stay away from this great place.
    Indeed, and you got slapped for it didn't you?

  21. #46
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    Quote Originally Posted by Ponterbee
    Wow, Yandros... The two items that really stand out are the fluorescent light and the winter portrait above the bed. I'll be staring at those awhile when I'm playing.
    That light is by our own sluggs, and I love it! And as for the art, every painting in the whole mission will be new.

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: arizona
    I cannot wait. I'm one of the art lovers who can't get enough of the paintings some people put in these missions...The bunny portraits in "The Night Falcon" and "Rowena's Curse", and those cool fantasy ones in "Events In Highrock" pop in my mind...

    Here's one player who'll definitely be looking for them!

    One cool thing(?)...A secret room perhaps, with some nice paintings under light you can admire before taking them as loot. Don't know if it's been done before.

  23. #48
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    I'm leaving tomorrow for a week at the beach, away from computers and internet. Well, OK... I'll have a laptop with Dromed on it but I doubt I'll do much. And if I do, it won't be on DCE as the only FM I have on that computer is King Abedzen's Tomb.

    Anyway, I got a lot of work done on DCE last week and sent an early beta of Act I off to Polygon and Moghedian for them to walkthrough and give feedback. I can't show you any new screenshots as I'm not at home currently, but maybe I'll post a few new ones when I get back in a week or so.

    You guys behave while I'm gone.
    Nightwalker, don't let sluggs get out of hand...
    Death's Cold Embrace - Info and screenshots

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Ahem! Be gone with you, foul being. Bring us a stick of rock back.

  25. #50
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Crikey, have you noticed how quiet it is in here without Yandros?

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