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Thread: Get learning Anim8or!

  1. #251
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    OK! I now realize that the matchbox can have even fewer poly's so i will update the tut shortly. The matchbox will be made in the same way only once done, the faces can be merged into one if you take my meaning. In other words, all i have to do is add a little extra part at the end of the tut to reduce the poly count.

    I can't really sort out this lower poly building just yet. I've alot on my plate at the moment. I'm working on 2 FM's and making models at the same time. Once they are finished then i shall work more on my models. Thing is, to have really low poly models you'll need to put the details into the textures and i am crap at graphics and can't make my own textures. FM's and model making can only work if you are good at everything required to make them. Folk's say: "Learn to use textures for added detail" and all that, yeah that's great if you're an artist. I'm just doing what i can. I'm happy building my models the way i have been. If i have to try and make all my models say around 40 poly's, i'm going to start getting burned out. I'm not ready for that yet. Lemme get my FM's done for now.

    I understand what you are saying Schwaa, just give me a little time. I can't understand why the matchbox has been poked at regarding poly counts though when my other models are obviously more poly's. Nothing was said of the streetlights, which are obviously more poly's. That matchbox was my lowest poly model to date, yet it got poked! I'm not complaining, i just think it strange that my lowest poly model so far got complaints of having too many poly's when my other models have more poly's! See what i mean? I guess it's because of the tut.

    You mad taffers' I wouldn't have it any other way.
    Last edited by sluggs; 28th Jun 2004 at 21:05.

  2. #252
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    That turbine is fabulous!

  3. #253
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by sluggs
    I can't understand why the matchbox has been poked at regarding poly counts though when my other models are obviously more poly's.
    Because it's the first model of yours that most obviously exceeds the number of polys that are strictly necessary.

  4. #254
    Nice turbine! Nice website too! Those screenshots for your t2 fm are fabulous! Great quality picks.



    ~SG

  5. #255
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    I've updated the tut now. It shows how to reduce the poly counts as you make the model.

    Clicky!

    Quote Originally Posted by R Soul
    I think at some point sluggs has had what I call a 'Matrix moment', when a new realm of possibilities is discovered. Custom objects are very liberating
    Yes, it was a "Matrix Moment" and still is!

    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane
    Because it's the first model of yours that most obviously exceeds the number of polys that are strictly necessary.
    Yes, you are right. I think it's fixed now. I can't really see how i can reduce them any more.

    Thing is, don't ye need a few extra poly's in a model to reduce that lighting problem? It's a funny old World! One never know's what to do for the best!

    [EDIT] Updated the tut yet again! It's perfect now! [/EDIT]
    Last edited by Sluggs; 16th Mar 2007 at 04:04.

  6. #256
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    edit merge face, d'oh, right in front of me for so long, sluggs, how'd you get the spheres on your lamps so round looking, mine always look like choppy spheres and i get too many polys generally when i split the faces.

  7. #257
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    I don't know Otto! I just use a normal, unedited sphere from the left side of the editor. I don't have any special way of making them.

    I've decided that to make an object, the best way possible, is to make it from scratch and not start off from a primitive and building from that. I am doing just this right now and it seems to be working. Building a model this way will also make it easier to texture. Things are looking up.

    See what i mean...



    This is part of a water tower.
    Last edited by Sluggs; 25th Mar 2007 at 00:53.

  8. #258
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Between dreams and shadows...
    Quote Originally Posted by sluggs
    Thing is, to have really low poly models you'll need to put the details into the textures and i am crap at graphics and can't make my own textures.
    I'm not sure how good Anim8or's renderer is (or if it even has one) but taking the example of the turbine I posted above, what I did was:

    - build a high poly version of the end (about 1000 polys IIRC), texture it using simple textures (NOT the object textures supplied with Thief - most are small and grainy, the brush textures tend to be better: I used the Thief rust texture in the Mech family with some simple changes)
    - render it with the camera facing directly at the surface with the at least one lightsource off to the top left (I used two)
    - scale the resulting render down to something a power of 2 square (8, 16, 32, 64, 128, 256), palettise the image and ensure that none of the pixels are in colour 0 unles they should be 100% transparent.
    - build your low poly model, apply the texture to it.

    With a good renderer you can get some pretty good results, you don't get the lighting perfect but, by careful placement of lights and objects in Dromed, it doesn't look too far off. This is fairly standard practice even among the heavyweight engines - you can get an order of magnitude or more "apparent detail" than you really have.

    It also tends to be a hell of a lot faster and easier to make textures this way that to try and do them by hand

  9. #259
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Awesome tip is that! Thanx.

  10. #260
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Back Home
    Indeed, this is a well known technique. If you download GameSpace, it even suggests that this is the best way to make textures.

    Well, either that, or capture them from photos in my opinion. But that goes more for brush textures. See Alexius' tutorial supreme for what I mean.

  11. #261
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Oh dear! I can understand now why you mentioned that the matchbox has too many poly's! Something horrible has happened to it and it shouldn't be the way it is. I had made it the same simple way as the book and for some reason, it has changed! I just don't know what has happened to it!

    Please don't download that version. I will make a new one. This is completely weird.

    It's no wonder there were complaints about it. Dat's one funky matchbox! If i start modelling like that, shoot me!

    Oh! I just remade it and it came out in the same way as the previous one did when i loaded up the .3ds file.

    Before exporting to .3ds...


    After loading back in the .3ds file...



    Anyway, i have made an updated version with fewer poly's than the last so it hasn't all been for nothing!
    Last edited by Sluggs; 25th Mar 2007 at 00:54.

  12. #262
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    i noticed many objects i was reverse engineering from thief had similar diagonal lines on the faces, it seems like somthing that bsp does when it builds the object.

  13. #263
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Between dreams and shadows...
    Many 3D programs will show you a single face when it could be using two or more triangles to build that face. Usually this fact is somewhat hidden from you when you are working in the modeller's native format, but importing and exporting in other formats will often either make it plain or result in the single face used internally being split into triangles. Some point manipulation operations can highlight it it as well.

    Essentially you have to assume that for every square or rectangular face you have in your object you're actually generating two triangles.

  14. #264
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    so then on an object i'm working on i have 270 faces, i should assume 540 faces actually are used.

    another question, on more complicated objects, like the combat bots, how are they kept low poly? are they separate parts each with a poly count that is acceptable so that while the whole is large the rendered bits are simple?

  15. #265
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    Sorry to confuse you Sluggs,

    I saw the lighting on the edge of the matchbox and thought it was overly complicated. I didn't realize that the ends were supposed to be indented, I thought it was just a simple cube, after seeing the Anim8or pic I understand how you made it.

    A poly is a triangle no matter what, so even if bsp adds the lines in the middle of the square, it's not adding polys, just making all edges visible. Your model probably still has the same amount.

    This can be done in 3DMax by choosing the turn to poly modifier and choosing 3 sides per poly. I do this quite often so I can see every possible edge, when you get to more complex objects/Ai's you'll need to turn the edges quite a bit to get the correct results. When I have a chance I make make a small tut about it, I imagine Anim8or has the same function although I don't know what it's called.

    I also have the same prob with low poly sluggs, I'm not all that great at textures but on alot of objects it doesn't take much to replace polys with simple texture details. My first round of objects were overly complicated too, it just takes time...

  16. #266
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England

    The best custom object ever:


  17. #267
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Hah! I'll see it when i believe it! Err, strike that, reverse it! Good idea. Now i wish i had a digital camera or a scanner! Finding that in an FM will be just sooo surreal!
    Last edited by sluggs; 30th Jun 2004 at 11:31.

  18. #268
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Drinking baby lemonade!
    That's fabulous!

  19. #269
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Italy
    ah ! nice......

  20. #270
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Finland
    The squirrell and a new banner have been uploaded to my site.

    Frob the...click the picture to download.


    I decided to just make it the normal way and give the model a normal texture instead of using the texture family way. This banner was inspired by the Thief 3 banners.


    Movement is made by using different models like the rat. Download my jari.gam file to see how I would set it up.

  21. #271
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    I frobbed the banner to download, but squiz doesn't frob! T3 banners eh? Good idea.

  22. #272
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros
    That's fabulous!
    And better yet, reusable!

    Imagine an FM where you find a Deadly Shadows CD, and Garrett says something pithy, like the "You've got to be kidding me" from Bafford's.

  23. #273
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: Go is to the fountain.
    Now can you make that with a jointed cover, R Soul?

  24. #274
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: ColoRADo
    That squirrel would be sweet with the frog motions, exploding squirrels It might take awhile but it should be possible.

  25. #275
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Finland
    I personally like squirrells, so I won't be doing exploding squirrells. You'll have to get your fun from someone else. There are .3ds files in the zip.

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