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Thread: Get learning Anim8or!

  1. #1426
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    There is an object poly limit of around 1500. If you had 400 AI as one object, you'd be limited to between 3 and 4 polys for each person.

    If you had 8 objects with 50 people each, each person could have 30 polys.
    I just made very crude outline of a person (2D, and top half only) and it used 33 polys. I think 650 is the sort of polycount a normal AI has. In other words, you'd lose a lot of detail, so it would probably only look acceptable to the player if they were quite far away, which might defeat the purpose.

    If you split it up int 8 objects, each very close to the 1500 poly limit, and a maximum of 4 of those were visible on screen from any view, you'd still have around 6000 object polys on screen. Now the dark engine can cope with more object polys than terrain polys, but I'm sure there's a limit.

  2. #1427
    Actually most T2 Ai were closer to 1,000 polys. T1 Ai were probably between 650-800.

    You could always delete all the faces on the back sides of AI and cut their polys in half. Of course you'd have to limit the player to a front only view.
    Then joint 3-4 in a group to save object count (only 125 objects on screen at once)

    Animating would be a pain. You could do 1 way mainly. save the models in keyframes. Hand low, hand a little higher...until their hand reaches top, then reverse the frames. You can use as many frames as you want by making the object die at the end of every 6 frames and being replaced with an object that contains the next 6 frames...
    I released a 'broken lights demo' available at The Circle. The shutters object works that way with 4 objects. Closed, Opening, Open and Closing. It needs to be frobbed to start it's cycle to open and frobbed again to close but you could just set the Tweq to On and it will start animated.
    This is basically how torches and rats are animated, they only use 4-5 models (keyframes each) though so they don't have to 'die' to go on to the next 5-6 keyframes.

    I'd probably make one model with 4-5 AI. 3 males 2 females kindof thing. Animate and save the key frames (I've learned that you can give them a skin modifier in Max, not sure about anim8or, pose all the frames. Then delete the 'skin' modifier at each frame and export the model in that pose).
    Then you can change each AI skin to a different one in Dromed. That way you have one set of AI objects and you can swap skins on each AI seperately and make a wide range of AI in the stands without having a million models.

    The grandfather clock has joints, their rotation is set in Tweq. But you can only have 5-6 joints per object and if you jointed arms or heads this way it might be very noticeable. But it would take one object file, the keyframes mentioned above take a seperate object file for each keyframe.

    Using models would be better than actual AI because they don't think, so they wouldn't slow down performance as much.

  3. #1428
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Germany
    Well. Playing around with anim8or the weekend made me realize that even if I was actually able to handle the program (learning which I've been pushing off for a while now) it would be more work than I expected. Not that I knew what to expect. =D
    I guess I'll set the idea aside, then.

    Thanks everybody, for admonition and advice. I'd liked to try but it's probably not worth it, especially since there's not much time. Lowering ambient light and hiding more than showing will hopefully do the trick instead. The real important things are going on elsewhere, anyway.

  4. #1429
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    How to set texture parameters in Material editor to make texture half-transparent (like glasses is French door)? I've tried almost everything.

  5. #1430
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: In The DK Dungeons.
    Play around with the Trans setting in the Material Editor, 1 is non-transparent, 0.5 is half-transparent and 0.0 total-transparent, I find that a setting of 0.3 to 0.6 is a good for glass! but it depends on the type off glass you are looking for, for a window 0.6 might be good and for a crystal wineglass 0.3 might work better, but just play around till you get a transparenty you like
    Keep taffing, greetings from Nielsen74

  6. #1431
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    Tried again and again, even make Anim8or to crash. Then I began to read this thread from the early beginning and found the advice to manually set transparent setting in *.e file.
    It looks much easier to me, and IT WORKS!
    But another problem is making me mad. I tried to use Inset button in faces edit mode. The result is one extra face in the center and some little segments surrounding it. That's right. But I can't apply any texture to any of new created faces: they remain grey. I still can apply textures to other faces that wasn't modified, but not for new. Save/reload and even restart computer didn't help.
    The most crazy thing that some hours before I DID the same trick on another PC (which is not accessible now), and everything was right. (The OS on that machine is Win98SE, now I'm fighting with machine with XP installed, may it be the reason?) I'm afraid that something corrupted in Anim8or or even in the registry. But another copy of Anim8or didn't solve the problem. I really can't imagine what to do now.
    Last edited by Zontik; 22nd Feb 2008 at 08:45.

  7. #1432
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    There is a way to view material transparency in Anim8or, but first you have to select some option. It's in the same menu from where you can tell it whether or not to show the grid, but the name escapes me right now.

  8. #1433
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: In The DK Dungeons.
    The option you might be thinking of is View->Preferences make shour there is a trik in the Transparency in both the OpenGL Workspace and the File Output boxs!.

    About the Inset faces thinging.... I donīt know
    Keep taffing, greetings from Nielsen74

  9. #1434
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: Formby, NW England
    To inset a face, turn off the grid (or set it to a very low value), select the face, then the inset button. Then click and drag.

  10. #1435
    Member
    Registered: May 2006
    Location: Russia
    Seems like something wrong with my Anim8or. Grid is off, Transparancy is on (OpenGL and file output, both). Using Inset destroys the texture on the modified face and don't allow apply new textures. The face become grey, dark grey (depends on texture before) or dark yellow. Exported object looks the same when placed in Thief.
    But some other buttons still work, and using of Scale face button permits me to solve the task. Pity I can't say the same thing abuot the whole problem.

  11. #1436
    Voice Actor
    Registered: Nov 2004
    Location: Out in West Texas
    If you want an animated crowd at a distance, it seems to me you'd want to:

    * put your crowd against a blue screen (i.e. a big room colored Jorge)
    * film the crowd doing its thing in-game, with similar lighting as where you will use the final product
    * turn that film into an animated texture with transparency (using Jorge/blue to set your transparency color)
    * apply the animated texture to a distant object in-game

    That would give you a 2-D crowd, animated, with few resource demands during game play. At least I think it would. And, you would not break immersion because the crowd would be composed of familiar Thief AIs.

    Don

  12. #1437
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements

    I Can't Fill Some Holes



    The image shows what should be correctly constructed vertices for a face, but Anim8or won't fill them (Fill Holes command). Any suggestions?

    Background
    I am constructing a flat object, what would be fabricated in the real world as a sheet metal stamped part. This is my process:

    1) Reference Drawing


    2) Cube Primative with 40 slices in X, 2 slices in Y, and 1 in Z, 100 X 50 X 2


    3) Convert to Mesh


    4) Cut the X-Y faces to match the reference image



    5) Apply the texture


    6) Delete the cut off faces


    7) Move to Ortho view and check it over



    8)Create new vertices for new faces along the "edge"



    .... to be continued ....

  13. #1438
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements

    I Can't Fill Some Holes, cont.

    9) Use Fill Holes command to put faces on the edge



    10) Sometimes the magic works, and sometimes it doesn't





    Any suggestions how to get the needed faces?

  14. #1439
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    UPDATE: I am deleting and recreating the XY faces bordering the holes that won't fill and recreating them with new vertices, but using the original points. That seems to be working. Knock wood.

    SECOND UPDATE: I was able to fill all holes by identifying the vertices that Anim8or does not like (only one of the endpoints highlights), but now I am left with a surfaced model whith incorrect UVs on the reconstructed faces. Sheesh!

    Last edited by LarryG; 6th Feb 2009 at 23:35.

  15. #1440
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    If you can't fill holes, drag-select all their points and merge them...

    Edit/Merge Points (Choose 0.1)

    Here's a better example for you, for using a reference image.
    Last edited by Sluggs; 7th Feb 2009 at 02:57.

  16. #1441
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2008
    Location: Sweden
    Quote Originally Posted by LarryG View Post
    I am constructing a flat object, what would be fabricated in the real world as a sheet metal stamped part.
    [...]
    Isn't it possible to just make the thing out of a flat rectangle and use transparent textures to get the right shape?

  17. #1442
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Quote Originally Posted by seventyfour View Post
    Isn't it possible to just make the thing out of a flat rectangle and use transparent textures to get the right shape?
    I don't think so. This will be a moving part with an axis, and I want it visible edge on. Besides, doing this is teaching me about Anim8or. A lot about Anim8or.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggs View Post
    If you can't fill holes, drag-select all their points and merge them...

    Edit/Merge Points (Choose 0.1)
    That works a treat! I wish I had known that technique earlier yesterday or the day before.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sluggs View Post
    Here's a better example for you, for using a reference image.
    I had not seen that before. What does that technique do to the UVs? Wouldn't it "stretch" the texture mapping as you stretch the faces?

  18. #1443
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements

    Completed Object, almost

    Completed geometry & re-texturing in front of the reference image. Now all I have to do is figure out how to put an axis on the thing, and then make the minute hand.


  19. #1444
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Making baby lemonade
    I sense a gigantic Keeper clock in our future.

  20. #1445
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Redone using a variation of the technique shown in the video provided by Sluggs. A much easier process and much better result. Thanks Sluggs!!



    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    I sense a gigantic Keeper clock in our future.
    You never know ... Has anyone had Garrett climb on the moving hands of a clock? Will it work? Who knows? Time will tell.

  21. #1446
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements

    With Axes and Clockface



    Now I need to try it out in-game! Lets see those hands move ... knock wood.
    Last edited by LarryG; 7th Feb 2009 at 19:38.

  22. #1447
    very beautyfull Larry, my compliments.

  23. #1448
    Cool Larry.. May I ask what those symbols are? Or rather, what are they from? (i.e. greek alphabet? made up symbols? japanese? etc.)

  24. #1449
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    Quote Originally Posted by sterlino View Post
    very beautyfull Larry, my compliments.
    Thank you. When I saw the texture, I HAD to make the clock! And I had to do the texture justice by making the hands as nice as the texture was.

    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    Cool Larry.. May I ask what those symbols are? Or rather, what are they from? (i.e. greek alphabet? made up symbols? japanese? etc.)
    They are from the three Thief games ... Check out my Glyph Resource Pack. I used the numerals 0 through 7 in the Thief-Glyphen font (in the resource pack) for the clock numbering. Did you know that Keeper clocks only had 8 numbers and that the clock cycled three times per day instead of the two we are used to? I didn't know that until I found that clockface texture.

  25. #1450
    Ah, I didn't know of that thread... Thanks

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