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Thread: Get learning Anim8or!

  1. #126
    New Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Camden, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by sluggs
    Just press "PrintScreen" on your keyboard and then run your paint program. Your piccie should now be in the clipboard, whatever that is, memory i think, then just goto "Edit" and "Paste Image" if nothing happens, then try again. Glad to see another taffer at this!

    BTW, i never got 3DS2BIN to work either, even after installing the VB files! I contacted NV about it but he was stumped too! I guess it doesn't work on Win 98. Do you use 98 to?
    File is too big to put on imageshack so I can't post it . Anyways, it doesn't do anything when I put it through Bsp (I can get the .e file, but it makes a really loud beep like 4 times during it). Bsp just comes up and goes away, not even staying up long enough to really see anything. Could I be missing a file in the folder I have it in to make it work.

    When I run it through Nameless Voice's 3ds-->bin.....it comes out saying something about a test that failed (Nameless Voice, any thoughts?). I'm half way thinking about sending it to you, Sluggs, to see what you can do with it .

    Off to try again.... .

    EDIT: Got the pic to work correctly. Here it is:
    Last edited by Demetri; 12th Jun 2004 at 01:15.
    The shadows and the mind are one in the same; both hold all the secrets in the world.

  2. #127
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Sure i could take a look at it if you like. As for the screenie, you could email it to me and i'll resize it and post it here for you if you like.

    Are you using BSP correctly?

    Run using Dos Prompt and then type:

    BSP myobject.e myobject.bin and that's it.

    Before you do so though, you'll want to edit myobject.e first and add in PHONG in between the two comma's in the material lines. I use "Edit.com" for this.

    Example...

    MATERIALS{
    1,"material02",,TMAP "water.gif",100,TRANSP 0,ILLUM 100;
    2,"material01",,TMAP "wood.gif",0,TRANSP 0;
    }

    Change to...

    MATERIALS{
    1,"material02",PHONG,TMAP "water.gif",100,TRANSP 0,ILLUM 100;
    2,"material01",PHONG,TMAP "wood.gif",0,TRANSP 0;
    }

    Adding this line will make the objects reflect light correctly. If you leave PHONG out, they will not look so good.
    Last edited by sluggs; 12th Jun 2004 at 03:42.

  3. #128
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: New Zealand
    That looks like it uses far too many polygons. The limit is 1024 (and squares, pentagons etc will be split into triangles, meaning more polygons than Anim8or reports). I'm not sure, but there might be a vertex limit too. I don't know if going over the limit will break BSP, but it will break the object in DromEd.

  4. #129
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Hey that's cool but it's got way too many poly's for Thief, sorry! You'll have to make a low poly version of it. Just use "Subdivide faces" the once and that should be OK for Thief.

    BTW, What is it? Looks like either a Horn, a Shower or a Torch upside down!

  5. #130
    New Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Camden, NY
    Quote Originally Posted by sluggs
    BTW, What is it? Looks like either a Horn, a Shower or a Torch upside down!
    It's my lamp post . I'm trying to send it to you now in an e-mail, it's taking a while to attach zipped up (i'm sending another one I made, a double lamp post). I don't know what you guys are looking at on there for the number of polies (never knew computers that well). That's why I want help with it.

    Hey sluggs, do you have any instant messanger of some sort?
    Last edited by Demetri; 12th Jun 2004 at 04:27.
    The shadows and the mind are one in the same; both hold all the secrets in the world.

  6. #131
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Anim8or doesn't actually tell you how many poly's an object has but it does give you some info - Options/Info You could always export it and load it up in something like 3DS Max, which gives you that info i think.

    I can see that your Lamp post has many poly's just by looking at it. But that shouldn't worry you should it since you saved your model in stages. You did didn't you?

    BTW, i don't have any messaging programs. Nobody to talk to! I used to have ICQ but i never used the thing.
    Last edited by sluggs; 12th Jun 2004 at 03:40.

  7. #132
    New Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Camden, NY
    Well, I'm on AIM (you'll notice from my profile ). I think this might be a lot easier for me to figure out if we were able to communicate like that. I'm obviously not forcing you to get any kind of instant messanger services. I'm just one of those people who need things explained step by step (you know, kind of like the hand-holding sort of way). Then I can do it on my own after I've been "shown".

    No, I didn't save throughout my progress (still not used to it ). I'd have to start over again. I've got the process for making it down pretty good now, I just don't know what to do to make it look like that with a low poly count to it. I mean, to make the curve like it is, I had to extrude tiny bits over and over again.

    .............just checked on the attaching the file to the e-mail.......still trying to attach.............

    I don't know DOS that well, so that might be another problem as to why it's not converting to .bin format. Again, I'm the kind of person that needs a step by step explaination. I'm not exactly sure on how to run the BSP in DOS .

    ....................still attaching.........................

    Oh yeah, I don't have 3dMax either, nor a working version of PSP (my trial version ran out and I don't have the money to get the full version of PSP 8.0).

    ................attaching...............attaching.................

    Sluggs, by all means, if you think that you can get a lamp post that looks like that done with "low polies", then go for it. I'm just trying to get this process down so I don't have to depend on everyone else to do it for me (like everything else ). What I really couldn't get is the whole "getting it into the UV Mapper portion", basically anything about texturing I couldn't get, and obviously the conversion didn't go to well either .

    ...............you know, I'm starting to think that putting the zip file on a floppy and sending it to you would be faster......................

    Ok, I think I've rambled enough. I'm tired, I should go to bed .

    ................attaching............ie yie yie......................

  8. #133
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    HOW DO I MOVE A POINT?

    I can't seem to select a point to move it. According to the manual for point editing I have selected the 3-dot button of the four at the top, the single dot button in the set of 6 below then the button right at the bottom which is a crucifix with arrows. But clicking on any point has no effect and does not select it. How do I select and drag an existing point?

  9. #134
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    @ Demetri...

    Start off by creating a custom folder for all your objects. Give it a simple name like "Objects" for making things easier in Dos mode. Dos doesn't like long folder/file names! Place this folder in the main root directory on your drive.

    Next copy those important tools into it like N3ds2e.exe, BSP.exe, BintoE.exe and Eto3DS.exe and export all your .3ds models into that same folder. Save your .gif files in there too, might as well keep everything in one place!

    Once you have exported your new object there, goto the Dos prompt, found under: StartMenu/Programs and then change the directory of your object folder by typing: CD:\X (X = Your folder) Now type: Doskey (This will make whatever you have typed in return when you press the up arrow and will save you typing it all out again!)

    Now it's time to convert your .3ds file to an .e file. Type in: n3ds2e X.3ds (X = Your object name) and that will create a new file. Now type: Edit and a text program will load up! Load up your new .e file by pressing "ALT" and then press the down arrow and goto "Open" and press "Enter". Now press "Tab" and go down the list until you find your .e file and then press "Enter"

    Now you will see two comma's together in the material lines. Type in "PHONG", without the quotes, between the two comma's, in each line where there's two comma's and then save it using "ALT", Selecting "Save" and then pressing "Enter" Then using "ALT" again go down the menu and select "Exit"

    OK, we're back in Dos!

    Now type BSP X.e X.bin (X = Your .e file) BSP should convert the file without anything popping up. After you have done all that, type "exit" and Dos will close, unless you were already in Dos from the beginning of course and not the Desktop!

    Create a new folder in your main T2 folder called "obj" and then create another folder inside that called "txt16" Your new X.bin file goes in the "obj" folder and your .gif texture(s) go in the "txt16" folder.

    Now use Explorer to copy over your new X.bin object from "your folder" to the "obj" folder in Thief. Next copy your .gif files into the "txt16" folder.

    Right, everything should be done now. Load up Dromed, load up your test level, you do have one surely? and choose an object to change to your new one using: Shape/Model Name.

    That's it!

    [EDIT] I got your email and took a look at your lamp model. It's actually alright apart from the the curved part at the top. It's that part that's giving you the problems. It has too many poly's in it! You can chop it off from the lamp and redo it. The lamp post itself is OK for a Thief object.

    Here's how to chop it off! *OUCH!*

    Goto point edit mode, and select the button with the backslash on it. Now click on the button with the arrow on it and select a line near the top of the post. Now goto Edit/Select and click on "Quad Loop Select" This will make a circle around the post for cutting.

    Now select "Edit" and then "Loop Cut" This has now divided your post into two parts. The post and the curved part. Now select the normal editing button, the button with the arrow on it next to the button with the eye on it and then select the other button with the arrow on it! Now select the curvy part and delete it. (Save first!) This will remove that high poly part and leave you with the low poly lamp post.

    Now you can try again and make one with less poly's. WOOT!

    Save it and check the info and filesize now! It's been reduced massively!

    One last tip... Do save the post alone won't you. You'll be able to use it later for making a new version of the Pagan torch. [/EDIT]
    Last edited by sluggs; 12th Jun 2004 at 10:14.

  10. #135
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidcal
    HOW DO I MOVE A POINT?

    I can't seem to select a point to move it. According to the manual for point editing I have selected the 3-dot button of the four at the top, the single dot button in the set of 6 below then the button right at the bottom which is a crucifix with arrows. But clicking on any point has no effect and does not select it. How do I select and drag an existing point?
    Click the button with the 3 dots on it, then click on the button with the big arrow on it. Now select your point(s), right mouse to select more points, and then click on that button with the star shape on it, directly under the big arrow button. Now you'll be able to move the selected point(s)
    Last edited by sluggs; 12th Jun 2004 at 06:50.

  11. #136
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Finland
    Here is a picture of my lamp post (with bad skins):


    The edges can be clearly seen, but it has only about 300 polygons.

  12. #137
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    That's not bad DA. You did a great job with your FlowerTable, as seen in "A Guard called Benny" I liked that one, alot.

    I enjoy looking at all these pics of your new objects taffers', please keep 'em coming.

  13. #138
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    I couldn't agree more. This thread is good fun. Thief desperately needs new objects, particularly furniture.... hint hint. Some new wardrobes, chest of draws, sideboards etc etc. Keep 'em coming.

  14. #139
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    I've just find an awesome site for getting light designs. Check this out!

    http://www.oldlamp.com/ Some of these lights i've just got model!

  15. #140
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Finland
    Very nice site. I could do more models, if I could just get the skins and ideas. If anyone knows any other sites with good pictures of old furniture, let me know.

  16. #141
    Good work everyone! Speaking of lamps, I made a few new models for my next FM. Here's a closeup of a desk lamp:


  17. #142
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: Go is to the fountain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidcal
    HOW DO I MOVE A POINT?
    Make sure you're working on a mesh (Build > Convert to mesh)


    Quote Originally Posted by mopgoblin
    (and squares, pentagons etc will be split into triangles, meaning more polygons than Anim8or reports)
    Not neccessarily. Running BSP with -l0 causes very few polygons to split. Don't use with REPLACE# textures though, or they may not show up propperly.
    Last edited by Mortal Monkey; 12th Jun 2004 at 19:40.

  18. #143
    Desperately dodgy geezer
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: The Wailing Keep
    That's an awesome lamp, Eshaktaar...

  19. #144
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    It most certainly is! Excellent texture work too! You've made me want to make one of those now, ye taffer! Obviously it'll be nowhere as good as yours. That's a professional effort is that. Best freakin' object i've seen yet!
    Last edited by sluggs; 13th Jun 2004 at 06:22.

  20. #145
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    HOW DO I MOVE A POINT?

    Thanks Sluggs and Mortal Monkey but I still can't get this to work. I started a new project and just made a line with three dots and it works with that but not on my main project. This is what I did exactly...

    Highlight the whole object
    Build > convert to mesh (think it already was but just to make sure)
    Hit 3 dots button then big arrow lower down
    Selected one dot in the object. It highlights OK.
    Select vertical cross with arrows on end just below big arrow.
    Try to left drag dot but it just won't move.

    I must have something else different but don't know what. I can't see any setting different between this project and the temporary test project. Could there be something that locks off a mesh somehow like a write-protect?

  21. #146
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: Go is to the fountain.
    O yeh, make sure it's not grouped either.

  22. #147
    This article about Vertex Lighting is worth a read, even though it's for UT2k3.
    Thief uses vertex lighting for objects, as well, and that's why some objects look rather odd in game, depending on how they are illuminated. For example desks and tables get brighter and darker when you look at them from different angles. The effect is very apparent because the large top surface only consists of two triangles. If one corner is closer to a light source than the others, an ugly gradient from light to dark appears.
    To prevent this, you can either split up a large surface to have more polygons, or you can create textures that already look like they're being lighted (texture baking).

    If ever there's a T3 editor, this'll be very essential when making custom objects (static meshes).

  23. #148
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Thanx for that info. I'll remember that. BTW, i just finished this lamp about an hour ago. OK, it's not great but you have to start somewhere! It's just a modified version of my Ball light with a shade added to it. I'm going to have a go at one of those desk lamps now!

    [EDIT] Well i was until i came up with this - now i want to continue with it! (Don't worry, it'll have a nice glass texture soon) I fear we're turning Thief into a different game altogether! [/EDIT]
    Last edited by Sluggs; 24th Mar 2007 at 23:47.

  24. #149
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Mortal Monkey
    O yeh, make sure it's not grouped either.
    Thanks, that's what it was - Build > ungroup of the whole object freed the point for moving. I must read the instructions one day... But not today.

  25. #150
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: United Kingdom
    Work in progress...

    Last edited by Sluggs; 24th Mar 2007 at 23:47.

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