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Thread: Standing Up for Thief: Deadly Shadows

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: In the Present Perfect
    I think the game in general is on par with the first two episodes, and in some respects better than MA... Loot glint is reasonable, I'd say. I have no problems with arrow trails, either, I just don't see what purpose do they serve... Lethal water? Hmm, maybe Garrett nowadays just so hates fish that even their haunts are deadly to him. Not being blinded by flashbombs could be explained by Garrett's immunity (I mean after the quantity of flashbombs I have used in the first two games, I'd be immune, too.)
    My only serious problems were with the climbing gloves/rope arrows. Climbing gloves are just unrealistic, aren't they? Especially since the texture of Garrett's gloves don't change And rope arrows did give you a great deal of freedom to explore - which could have come handy when exploring a finally explorable City! An explosion of exploration indeed!
    The loading zones are just something you have to put up with. Or stuff it, of course.
    I really, really did miss the old cutscenes though - BUT! I had a problem with the cutscenes in DP, too; namely that the game did not live up to the cutscenes. What do I mean? Well, the stuff like: 'comes back in the night and tears you skin screaming' almost made to wet myself when I first played it, and... Okay, DP was really nightmarish and frightening, but not nearly as terrifying as some parts of DS. So the conclusion, to my mind is: in DP cutscenes were overdone, whereas in DS they were underdone.

    The point about the intensity of DP, MA, and DS is: DP begins in a kind of jolly, now-let's-grab-some-loot way, and tension comes as a shock when you first visit the Walled-up-section. The Bonehoard is pretty frightening, yes, but... but not that much. In MA the only frightening thing is he Builder's Child, whilst in DS... Now, in DS from the loading texts you know from the very beginning that something very, very bad is brewing. Something hunts you. Frankly, when I read the 'Fiddle-dee-dum' quotation and then in the City a man started humming that next to me, I thought that something extremely nasty is going to happen in half a minute. And the fact that it didn't, did not break the tension. In fact, it enhanced it.
    In no way do I mean that DS does not need some corrections: e.g., the frob highlight is, honestly, disgusting, but if you really must - as I had - then download JP's Texture Pack.
    And by no means is MA the best. I wanted from MA the suspension. But MA gameplay-wise was improved enough to make up for it. So all in all, I think the three games are fully equal.
    If you don't, I'd advise you to set out and improve whichever one you don't like. That's the best you can do, isn't it?
    Last edited by Herr_Garrett; 10th Jan 2009 at 09:10.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Herr_Garrett View Post
    Not being blinded by flashbombs could be explained by Garrett's immunity (I mean after the quantity of flashbombs I have used in the first two games, I'd be immune, too.)
    You would more likely be permanently blind.

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I'd wonder if someone could add dark green clouds for the player. I don't know what you all see after being blinded, but for me it's always dark green-blue clouds moving before the eye.

  4. #54
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: The limbo region of hell
    Heh, play with flashbombs often irl?

  5. #55
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001
    Why was this bumped? This discussion is getting soo old.

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2008
    Location: In the Present Perfect
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post
    You would more likely be permanently blind.
    It could be that at the smell of magnesium Garrett's eyes just instantly shut down for the time of the explosion A Pavlovian reflex...

  7. #57
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2007
    Location: Bulgaria

    Flashbombs

    When Garrett toss a flashbomb, he closes his eyes. The eyelid is the reason he can't be blinded by his flashbombs. There is no need to look the other way. He knows exactly when to close eyes. And his mechanical eye? How can you blind a camera? It's just a 1/10 of a second flash. The CMOS sensors refresh quickly.

    What is the reason you do not like enforcers? They are challenge that makes the game more difficult and therefore more interesting.

    What is wrong about the loot glint? You can make it disappear with John P's textures. It's like a inside Garrett's skill to see only the precious items. You are not a real thieves and you don't know what to look for. It's just a little hint.

    What's wrong with the blue color when you focus on items? Again use the other textures. But with the blue color you can clearly distinguish what is selected.
    Last edited by pwyll; 10th Jan 2009 at 11:16.

  8. #58
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Please, let the thread 'die'.

    Many of us dislike these additions because they simply weren't needed, and make the game feel like a kiddy console game.

    That the 'loot glint' design choice wasn't turned off under Normal and Hard difficulty is kind of offensive. It's a reflection of our society's need for 'instant gratification'. Heaven forbid we challenge the player to learn what type of loot to look for, or allow them to make mistakes and have to set a piece of junk back down.

    I have no trouble with some of the design choices as 'learning guides' for new or casual players, but there was very little done to make the game challenging or respectful to long time players.

    The arguments have been stated over and over and over again since the release of the game. Lets move on.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwyll View Post
    When Garrett toss a flashbomb, he closes his eyes. The eyelid is the reason he can't be blinded by his flashbombs. There is no need to look the other way. He knows exactly when to close eyes. And his mechanical eye? How can you blind a camera? It's just a 1/10 of a second flash. The CMOS sensors refresh quickly.

    What is the reason you do not like enforcers? They are challenge that makes the game more difficult and therefore more interesting.

    What is wrong about the loot glint? You can make it disappear with John P's textures. It's like a inside Garrett's skill to see only the precious items. You are not a real thieves and you don't know what to look for. It's just a little hint.

    What's wrong with the blue color when you focus on items? Again use the other textures. But with the blue color you can clearly distinguish what is selected.

  9. #59
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2004
    Location: Reykjavík, Iceland
    The loot glint is one of my favorite additions in TDS. Why you may ask?

    Because my eyesight is terrible. If I'm not looking exactly at a point I won't see it at all (limited peripheral vision), I'm badly nightblind so I get blinded by darkness much easier than people with normal eyesight, plus it takes me up to 30 minutes for my eyes to get used to darkness. Then there is nearsightness of -7 or so. All this comes from something called 'retinitis pigmentosa', and will progressively get worse until I'm completely blind.

    For the above reasons you probably understand why loot hunting was a hellishly frustrating experience for me in T1 & T2. The loot glint in TDS isn't a perfect solution for me (for example I managed to miss that special loot above the doorway to part 2 of the Keeper Compound. . . before I opened the glyph door), but it made the hunting much easier nevertheless.

    What I do find a bit odd though, is why this wasn't made optional. Not everyone in the world has bad eyes, and I can understand how this ruins loot hunting for those who don't need a glow screaming 'I'm over here!'.


    But aside from this, I love the improved graphics and the free-roam in the city. And the new AI is a nice touch, a few times I've had some 'oh shit' moments where guards say "Better check behind the crates" or something along those lines. The lockpicking system is a lot more interesting, took me a while to crack open the lock to the jewelry store in Auldale.
    Last edited by Bjossi; 10th Jan 2009 at 12:57.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by New Horizon View Post

    Many of us dislike these additions because they simply weren't needed, and make the game feel like a kiddy console game.
    This is kind of true... They needed to sell a lot of copies... This is the worst that became of the gaming industries. They sacrifice a lot of good things for the sake of using only 4 buttons (or whatsoever a game pad has). That was the reason Thief 3 was spoiled (in the matters that was). Still it gets the game to a new dimension. As I said before, the way it looks, TDM will compensate for all our needs.

  11. #61
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    And we almost had avoided the usual TDS topic by turning to flashbombs if it were not ...

  12. #62
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2008
    Squabbling quiets down
    29th May 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by pwyll
    Thief Deadly Shadows is my favorite game.
    Dynamic shadows are the best improvement.
    10th Jan 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by jtr7
    loltrain

  13. #63
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Bjossi View Post
    For the above reasons you probably understand why loot hunting was a hellishly frustrating experience for me in T1 & T2.
    I can absolutely understand why it would be necessary for a situation like that. For sure. There's plenty I liked about the game, but overall I felt spoon fed while playing it and that really ruined it for me.

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Poland
    Oh the drama.

  15. #65
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2001

    Oh where is the lock button on this god forsaken thing.

  16. #66
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2005
    Location: The limbo region of hell
    Erm, this thread is supposed to be for people who liked this game. There are plenty of other threads for people who didn't. And why is this debate any different than the other tired debates over TDP vs TG vs TMA (or dromed vs dromed2) that have been popping up lately?

  17. #67
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2002
    Location: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by kamyk View Post
    Erm, this thread is supposed to be for people who liked this game. There are plenty of other threads for people who didn't. And why is this debate any different than the other tired debates over TDP vs TG vs TMA (or dromed vs dromed2) that have been popping up lately?
    I'll answer your question, kamyk:



    Some folks just can't let it go until you see the error of your ways.

    .j.

  18. #68
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Where did anyone say the other was wrong here? It's simply explaining why some didn't like certain aspects. There is no heated argument here, nobody is calling anyone stupid...or wrong. Only the expression of disappointment that some of those 'in game helping hands' couldn't have been turned off by experienced players. Please don't make it like there is a huge argument when there isn't one.

  19. #69
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2005
    Location: Sona-Nyl
    Well I was kind of expecting this topic to have been locked already, but since I can still reply I might as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by pwyll View Post
    What is the reason you do not like enforcers? They are challenge that makes the game more difficult and therefore more interesting.
    Conceptually there is nothing wrong with them but everytime I come across someone who says they thought the game was fine as it is I have to wonder to myself: "Do these people not find anything strange about the keepers suddenly going on a rampage slaughtering everyone in sight... or the fact that everyone can see them? "

    It also resulted in the last part of the game where Gamall and her statues are let loose in the streets being somewhat anticlimatic... I mean citywide death and destruction just doesn't have the same effect the second time around.

  20. #70
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2004
    Location: Fresno, CA
    I believe that TDS is a good game. True, it's not as good as T2 and certainly not as T1/TG, but by itself it is a good game. And Robbing The Cradle is a real masterpiece. I also like the intertwined storylines going as far back as the first game.

    [I believe that TDS has the only storyline in the series (if you happen to use the story of Drept, Lauryl, and Garrett) that can potentially be turned into a screenplay, and eventually into film. That is, if you are willing to ignore the clichés.]

    As for the Enforcers, what is their point? Everyone can see them. One would think that only Garrett could see and hear them, but apparently, everyone can.

    "To see a Keeper is not an easy thing, especially one who does not wish to be seen."

  21. #71
    jtr7
    Guest
    The Enforcers were botched/unfinished. Artemus was more dangerous, and I never felt anymore threatened by the Enforcers than any other kind of alert AI. I found the statues in Gamall's lair to be a bigger challenge, mainly because I hadn't learned the terrain, yet. The Enforcers should've been a special effect, not an AI for the most part, except for specific moments for you to get a good look at 'em. The idea of what I thought they were going to be, what they were supposed to be, was much more powerful than what I saw. I like the concept a lot, but not the implementation in-game.

    Garrett: I thought I told you...I don’t like being followed.
    Artemus: Our separate paths have converged, Garrett. We both seek the same thing.
    Garrett: Hmm. I suppose if you were working for Gamall, you would have tried to kill me just now.
    Artemus: Tried? I would have succeeded.
    Since Caduca saved Garrett from being erased by the Enforcers back when he left the Keepers, that plot-point would've been even more powerful if we couldn't imagine Garrett facing off with them before the Bafford job.

  22. #72
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2007
    I agree deadly shadow was a good game in it's own right;
    but who really think it's a progress compared to the previous games ?

    ...unless you thing graphics are more important than gameplay,
    in which case I look down to you.
    Imagine if Thief's gameplay made the same progresses as its graphics ...

    There's nothing more to expect from eidos now, in the way of Thief; especially if the eventual sequel is also on console.

  23. #73
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Keeper Jonas View Post
    -Yes, Lock picking is hard, frustrating and dangerous, GOOD!!!
    Are we talking about TDS lockpicking? Did you ever play it? Lockpicking in TDS is ridicoulously easy once you learned how to do it.
    A rather good lockpicking system, I found, is in Fallout 3. It's not extremly hard, but it always requires you to pay attention to harder locks.

  24. #74
    jtr7
    Guest
    Yeah, but you're responding to a comment made nearly 5 years ago.

  25. #75
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2007
    Location: South Coast,England uk
    yeah!...so are u

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