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Thread: The Dark Mod

  1. #1326
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Making baby lemonade

    Yeah, that's the ticket!

  2. #1327

    Body Awareness?

    Hello,

    I just saw some videos apperently taken from the Dark MOD. And I have a question; I see the shadow of the character, but not his body when the camera looks down. Where is the body? Does the DARK MOD use Body Warenesss, or is this a fake shadow?

    I hope someone can answer, and I hope the mod uses body awareness.

    -Tony.

    P.S.: I only play first person games if they support body awareness, so I hope the Dark MOD does use it.

  3. #1328
    You mean like in Thief 3 where you can see Garrett?



    Obviously it doesn't. Doom 3 didn't have it. Unless there's a way to implement it?

  4. #1329

    Body awareness is possible...

    Quote Originally Posted by sNeaksieGarrett View Post
    You mean like in Thief 3 where you can see Garrett?

    Obviously it doesn't. Doom 3 didn't have it. Unless there's a way to implement it?
    Yes! Like Thief 3 (although the first person animations weren't so good in Thief 3).

    Aww, too bad. Now I have los my motivation to play the dark mod, since I hate it when 1st person games don't use body awareness.

    But it's not that difficult. I read an article once how gamedevelopers made body awareness: Simply make it third person, and place the camera inside the head of the player and make the head invisible, and voilá: Body awareness!
    If someone of the dark mod team is reading this, I ask you to please do this. There are a lot of people who - like me - hate it when 1st person doensn't have body awareness.

    Bye,

    Tony.
    _

  5. #1330
    You're not going to play it simply because of that? No offense, but seriously that's not a very good reason to not play it.

  6. #1331
    It's not quite that simple. You can already try this if you have Thief's Den or Saint Lucia. There is a console cvar to set 3rd person and another cvar to move the camera position so you could probably put it inside the head or up his ass if you want.

    But Dark Mod does not support third person so it is not animated. At most you will see walking and crouching in third person. You won't see weapon use etc.

    We can implement body awareness I guess if everyone doesn't mind waiting an extra 6 months or so and if you can find a coder willing to spend that time without pay.

  7. #1332
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Marlboro, MA, USA
    As Fidcal says, body awareness is potentially fully possible with The Dark Mod, but the team simply isn't implementing it due to most people not wanting it per se and it being far less important than all the other core "thiefy" game-play elements. By the same token the player shadow is not supported, and is by default off, just like in Thief 1 and 2.

    I personally like the shadow turned on, even though it IS somewhat buggy (some weird "jumpy" animations when climbing, other odd aspects), and I may end up turning it back off after all.
    The Keep for Thief 1 and 2 FMs, Shadowdark for Thief 3 and Dark Mod FMs

  8. #1333
    Yeah I love the shadow. Truth is, when I play I don't study the shadow or its imperfections in detail but I'm aware of it adding atmosphere and interest to the view. It's fine for me.

  9. #1334
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ayalew View Post
    Hello,

    I just saw some videos apperently taken from the Dark MOD. And I have a question; I see the shadow of the character, but not his body when the camera looks down. Where is the body? Does the DARK MOD use Body Warenesss, or is this a fake shadow?
    As I said earlier...we do not support the player shadow. We do not support body awareness. We want to support a traditional first person experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ayalew
    But it's not that difficult. I read an article once how gamedevelopers made body awareness: Simply make it third person, and place the camera inside the head of the player and make the head invisible, and voilá: Body awareness!
    If someone of the dark mod team is reading this, I ask you to please do this. There are a lot of people who - like me - hate it when 1st person doensn't have body awareness.
    Sure, it's not that difficult if you don't want it to work properly. It's a hell of a lot more involved than just sticking a camera on top of a 3rd person model....and yes, I already tested this out in TDM 4 years ago.

    It creates a whole new set of issues that you have to create work arounds for. Control is affected, world interaction, animations. If you don't like it, that's quite fine with us. We're not making the mod to appeal to everyone.
    Last edited by New Horizon; 28th Apr 2009 at 18:07.

  10. #1335
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: KC, KS, USA
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ayalew View Post
    But it's not that difficult. I read an article once how gamedevelopers made body awareness: Simply make it third person, and place the camera inside the head of the player and make the head invisible, and voilá: Body awareness!
    If someone of the dark mod team is reading this, I ask you to please do this. There are a lot of people who - like me - hate it when 1st person doensn't have body awareness.

  11. #1336
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: cesspool
    Quote Originally Posted by Tony Ayalew View Post
    P.S.: I only play first person games if they support body awareness
    So you never played T1/2 ?

  12. #1337
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinqueecclesiensis HU
    Quote Originally Posted by ToolFan2007 View Post
    Hate to say it but "when the fuck is this out?" Cos by the time it's released it'll look no better than if Thievery were released today.
    So don't play it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tonay Ayalew
    P.S.: I only play first person games if they support body awareness
    So don't play it.

    See? That simple.

  13. #1338
    jtr7
    Guest
    Don't waste your time, Melan. He's incapable of reason and growth.

  14. #1339
    Classical Master 2008
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: Civitas Quinqueecclesiensis HU
    Oh, it's just for the entertainment value.

  15. #1340
    jtr7
    Guest
    Oh okay, then.

  16. #1341
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Jack Town, the big MS
    I just got the chance to play through St. Lucia. I was blown away at how much it reminded of what a true Thief experience is. This could turn out to be what Thief 3 should have been. Don't get me wrong, Thief 3 had it's strong and weak points, just like the 1 & 2, it just didn't have that true Thief feel. I, for one, am very pleased to see what the Dark Mod guys are up to.
    Also, since St. Lucia represents a half year or more old build, it gets me very excited to see what the next round brings. Kudos to the Dark Mod team. Thanks for being such devoted fans.

  17. #1342

    Body Awareness.

    Ho, Ho, Ho, not so fast.

    Maybe my quote of "I never play first person games if they don't support body awareness" is a bit too much. There are some rare occations when I do play a first person game without body awareness, but only if the game is so good that the body awareness is something you could forgive.

    For example: I did play and enjoy Thief 2, Oblivion, and Bethesda's Call of Cthulhu.

    But that's it, other 1st p. games without BA were stupid.

    regards,

    Tony.

  18. #1343
    Body awareness is one of the "+" 'es of Thief 3. For me it was cool to actually see Garrett. Movement tried to simulate sneaking but quality was not that good. I liked stairs climbing thou. Perhaps body awareness like an option (body awareness Y/N)?

  19. #1344
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Snakebite View Post
    Perhaps body awareness like an option (body awareness Y/N)?
    You're not getting the point. 1st person with body awareness and without are two different beasts. If you're going to support full body awareness, you have to rip into the traditional first person systems and fully integrate it. For an option to work, we would have to maintain two separate player systems. Not going to happen. Body awareness is an aesthetic gimick. It's pretty to look at, but it has yet to contribute massive improvements to an already reliable system.

  20. #1345
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Marlboro, MA, USA
    I think it's more than a gimmick, I really like it in Thief 3, feels more immersive and right to me. So I hope some future version of The Dark Mod someday does implement it, and it's nice to know that the possibility is there for it to work if and when that happens.
    The Keep for Thief 1 and 2 FMs, Shadowdark for Thief 3 and Dark Mod FMs

  21. #1346
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2004
    Location: Prince Edward Island, Canada
    Quote Originally Posted by Komag View Post
    I think it's more than a gimmick, I really like it in Thief 3, feels more immersive and right to me. So I hope some future version of The Dark Mod someday does implement it, and it's nice to know that the possibility is there for it to work if and when that happens.
    Never felt that way for me sadly. It just made me more aware that I was playing a game. With the previous installments, my mind just filled in that there were supposed to be legs there.

    By gimick, I meant that ...as far as improving the system 'technically'...it really did little to improve what had come before, and as we all know...made it worse in many ways.

  22. #1347
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Location: Toronto, Canada
    I found it distracting as well; a constant reminder that I was essentially a "pilot" controlling a thief-shaped vehicle. In RL, you're not acutely "aware" of your body, you just act.

  23. #1348
    jtr7
    Guest
    His body was in the damned way far too often! In real life, if I need to see something under my foot, I just move the foot. I can move the foot before my eyes meet the spot I'm looking at. I can twist at the torso to see past my shoulder. In TDS I have to move the whole body by turning the whole body past where I want to look and then turn back some. And it's not realistic at all for the camera in your head to bisect the body and shatter the illusion and see into the hollow mesh through invisible polygons (or whatever that phenomenon is called).

  24. #1349
    Quote Originally Posted by Komag View Post
    I think it's more than a gimmick, I really like it in Thief 3, feels more immersive and right to me.
    Apart from the head bob, as you know the human brain filters out head movement...

  25. #1350
    Okay, well I'll argue that "invisibility" is no more realistic than body awareness. Come on, you're a human. You HAVE to see your feet. I actually wished thief 1 and 2 had a body, but then it probably would have sucked with the technology back then. I recall a little demo someone made in thief 2 dromed that did just this, but of course it looks really silly. Personally, I'm not going to just not play a game because it doesn't have body awareness, but I think it's a nice plus, as Snakebite said.

    Anyone played left 4 dead? the body awareness is awesome.

    All that said, Jason has a very good point. If it's done right though, maybe it will be accepted with open arms?

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