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Thread: What are you working on RIGHT NOW? - Community WIP thread

  1. #901
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    The long building from where the photo was taken is white. But you're right, thank you. The colors are a little better in the game, but I'm still not quite sure if/how I can create a good mix of a visible (i.e. not too dark) environment without killing the whole light-shadow-play which the game relies on...with respect to the fact that we have to be careful with the lights. One cannot make a good-looking daylight mission with this thing, can he*? And last but not least the sky is still not finished; I wish it had more saturation while having no "colorful" color at the same time. Does it make sense?

    * Is there a common question tag for "one" at all?

  2. #902
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    One cannot make a good-looking daylight mission with this thing, can he*?
    It's all matter of static meshes. If your whole area, let's say terrain, is sm then no-shadow directional light even with a large radius won't effect performance at all(tested). If that light touches any bsp surface, forget about it. But then, with only static meshes, you'll have to mess around with the problem of light leaking through static meshes, in case of directional light.

    we have to be careful with the lights.
    What saddens me a bit, we're several years left behind game industry. Everyone ditched bsp around 2000-2002, which is slower. All these next-gen engines, meaning per-pixel ones, are built to use mostly with static meshes. And, successfully, tds is a fine example of them in terms of renderer. That "success" might be unfortunate in our case, because of the known static mesh import issue.

    You can make 15-20 times larger and detailed levels and run perfectly fine on current hardware if the whole level is made of static meshes in t3ed. That's what the trend is anyway. Maybe trend is not the right word, more like a mandatory thing. Take any unreal engine 3 level or crysis, the bsp/static mesh ratio is almost 10/90 percent.

    Even, take two split-up original missions from tds. Go through the painful process of uv-mapping and turn the whole level into chunks of static meshes. Batch import them back to editor, merge them, you won't even hit vertex pool limit, meaning they would have even worked at xbox if they had gone this route.

    I tend to get little bit off topic nowadays easily, I hope you folks don't mind it much.

    Ok back on topic:
    I wish it had more saturation while having no "colorful" color at the same time. Does it make sense?
    I *think* I know what you mean, that also annoys me from time to time. It's a matter of realism in my case, I mean street light give out "bulb" light and it's color has to match and torch lights should look like "fire" light, right?

    Can you guys suggest me on some idea for light sources for terrain/cave levels? I mean default crystal/mushroom combinations gets boring after a while, what's there to light up a cave other than torch light which will give and should all the time brownish tones? I don't like the idea of "magical" pagan blue fires.

    In your case Beleg,(I'm talking about the last screenshot) add a torch inside the arch area on the lower left corner and make a bit brighter than usual, lower its saturation and make its radius smaller than usual. Maybe you tried that already, if not, hope it might give you an idea.

  3. #903
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2005
    Location: Scotland
    Terrain/cave doesn't have to mean unoccupied, so camp-fire type things are okay. And you can have breaks in the roof to have some sun/moonlight coming through (I think I had a picture way back when I was working on Forgotten Spaces which did both of those).

    Also, if I remember the cutscenes in the games right, you can have a sort of low-lying firefly-type mystic light too.

    Watery reflections, luminecant (probably spelled wrong) rocks/fungus - other than the crystals and mushrooms, but essentially the same idea. Lava might be appropriate if you're going that far pagan/underground/away.

    None of these are good for "brown" light, but really that should either be level minimum light or the texture colour for most of it (or a post-process screen tint). "Brown" lights in real life are more likely to be diffusions and reflections than an actual light source, and in low light the human eye tends to pick up more red-tones anyway as far as I remember (longer-wavelengths travelling further/keeping their energy longer or some nonsense like that on the physics side of things).

    The Pagan blue-magic fires have a long traditon - Wightlights and Wisps, but you can change the colours by hand: there's nothing forcing the magic lights to be blue except that it's an unnatural colour (well, unusual) for lighting, but otherwise doesn't colour perceptions as much as red or green does - they're usually used more as mood/atmosphere identifiers.

    I think Flares - like in TMA were orangey-green though, and shouldn't be too hard to rig back in to the game (at least as smeshes of someone else placeing them) if you wanted that kind of light too. Might be a good way to show someone else is exploring, and not so far ahead of the player that the flares have gone out.

    Finally, don't forget you can just collapse the City into the underground in places: normal "human", even electric lights could appear in a cave type place.

  4. #904
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Flares...Might be a good way to show someone else is exploring, and not so far ahead of the player that the flares have gone out.
    That's a neat idea, thanks.

  5. #905
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Central Europe
    It might be a good idea to post some screens from your new mission, Flux, or create a separate preview thread in Thief FMs
    Will help with modelling, texturing and T1/2-style cut-scenes | Thief-related videos |Photoblog

  6. #906
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    You're right, I should.

    Here are some screens from "Valley", which is now going under heavy beta-testing and bug-fixing stage.

    http://images.bittersense.com/valley1.jpg
    http://images.bittersense.com/valley2.jpg
    http://images.bittersense.com/valley3.jpg

  7. #907
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia
    GREAT!

  8. #908
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by clearing View Post
    http://images.bittersense.com/valley1.jpg
    ... I never thought T3 could be manipulated like that...

    awesome, cant wait to play, blimeyt if this gets released in may, we will be swaped in Fm's..

    biker

  9. #909
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2005
    Location: Europe
    Really nice screenshots!

  10. #910
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Quote Originally Posted by Bikerdude
    ... I never thought T3 could be manipulated like that...
    In fact especially this first picture doesn't show stuff to which the game/editor/engine had to be forced, it's simply what hasn't really been done until now. With enough creativity one can easily learn how to make acceptable Thief missions with T3Ed (and with that I mean that the essence of Thief is not necessarily built of rope arrows and water). The list of abandoned projects at Komag's Shadowdark Keep features quite interesting achievements which are already two years old. But thanks to TDS's bad publicity hardly anyone cared for the advantages of this editor or at least the sheer fact that one can build Thief missions with it.

  11. #911
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Central Europe
    And what is nice, this is one big map, no loading zones
    Will help with modelling, texturing and T1/2-style cut-scenes | Thief-related videos |Photoblog

  12. #912
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Stir Crazy
    Right now, Keeper Secrets have started breathing again.















  13. #913
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Stir Crazy
    You want some fries with that?















  14. #914
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Stir Crazy
    Do we need one more? Ok We need one more.








  15. #915
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    I'm glad I have a monitor here with a wheel to increase brightness.

    So you're having a subtract brush arch door? That's brave, I luckily got it now to use things as they were intended (i.e. rectangle brushes with BFed surfaces to place a static mesh doorframe in for instance). Even Komag's tutorial still advices you to use beams in that place. But in the end it's up to you. When will we probably see this baby? And please don't hesitate to contact me to forge you a German translation right before the release.

  16. #916
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Central Europe
    Shots from the game whould have been better and more bright too Great job, when you plan to release it?
    Last edited by Judith; 25th Jul 2008 at 13:06.
    Will help with modelling, texturing and T1/2-style cut-scenes | Thief-related videos |Photoblog

  17. #917
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Stir Crazy
    First of all level one is almost done, needs more AI, pathing, everything is practically set level two is WIP.

    But is not gonna be just two levels.

    Second I did nothing the OM did not have arches are square brushes.
    One exception were the carriages entryway required a bit more curved carving but not by far, FPS is very high so no slow downs yet.

    Shadows casting were done on some objects, and they do not slow down anything either where it was enabled.

    Release date... uncertain.
    Last edited by Martin Karne; 25th Jul 2008 at 16:37.

  18. #918
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2006
    Location: Deutschland
    Well, but there are SMeshes for arched doorways. I'm trying to find a door actor that fits into them at the moment because the usual ones appear too small, but in fact you should be able to make it even simpler.

  19. #919
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Stir Crazy
    There is only one static mesh that had the right size for the doors and without leaving out spaces.
    Is the only fully BSP arch in two maps.
    So you can relax.

  20. #920
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Central Europe
    Apart from finishing my Cabal part, I've been messing with Terragen and cubemaps again, trying to use those renders as skyboxes put inside a sphere. Everything seems to work perfect and it looks much better than those skyboxes from OM's. Yet you have to watch out for the gradients in the sky and the banding - bloom makes it even more visible. Next time I'll work with the sky some more.

    Will help with modelling, texturing and T1/2-style cut-scenes | Thief-related videos |Photoblog

  21. #921
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Lovely!

    Your skyboxes seem all right to me, but you know you can use that fog-ring effect in the skybox like those ut2004's levels.

  22. #922
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Central Europe
    Fog + bloom makes the banding even more intense I guess I'll have to correct those images a bit, render those in higher resolutions and then shrink them down, or play with some noise + gaussian blur mask in Gimp.
    Will help with modelling, texturing and T1/2-style cut-scenes | Thief-related videos |Photoblog

  23. #923
    Clearinghouse
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Siberia, Russia
    Great work, Judith

  24. #924
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Judith, I mean this fog-ring. Depending on the color choice, it might help to reduce the banding.

  25. #925
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Central Europe
    Oh, this one, that's quite a good idea too. Anyway, I managed to get rid of this banding, not by using noise and blur, but by making the sky a separate layer and then mixing it with another, a bit darker sky or stars/space image. Rough example:

    Before

    After
    Will help with modelling, texturing and T1/2-style cut-scenes | Thief-related videos |Photoblog

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