TTLG|Jukebox|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Should The Sketchy Entry Points Get Fixed?

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: May 2015

    Should The Sketchy Entry Points Get Fixed?

    Some of us more experimental taffers, may be aware of the hidden entry points at particularly high elevations in the original missions.

    Lord Bafford's: Jump onto street lamp, access rooftops, Thief 2 Framed, jump onto generator next to river, follow gate, rooftop entry into the dining area, Thief 2 Casing/Masks, jump onto lamp, jump onto hedge, enter 3rd floor.

    There are more examples of missions that can be so cheezed, these are just a few off the top of my head. I've noticed something strange over the decades that I've been playing Thief (god are we that old?), some of these exploits have had attempted fixes applied, to remove them. The most obvious example is my first spoiler example, i.e mission 1.1, where they seem to have patched in an invisible wall, where previously it was much easier to drop down into the courtyard. They ultimately failed, as I just go off to the left and drop in that way, but it's much more difficult to avoid health damage going this route, and feels strangely at odds with the reality that Garrett clearly has an easier way in, that invisible walls are now preventing. Can we either patch these alternate routes out properly, or stop trying to sabotage them? Or is the creator of New Dark pretty much mia at this point?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Some of the alternate entry points pretty much break the game immersion. For anyone who has a 360 degree image of The City imprinted on their mind with a black hole in the middle, you know what I'm talking about here.

  3. #3
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    a person determined to cheat/exploit will always find a way.

    that said, TFix does make a few objects unmantleable to sour their soup for just a little bit (mostly objects that were almost unmantleable under oldDark, but were very mantleable in NewDark because of the improved mantling).

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Quote Originally Posted by voodoo47 View Post
    a person determined to cheat/exploit will always find a way.

    that said, TFix does make a few objects unmantleable to sour their soup for just a little bit (mostly objects that were almost unmantleable under oldDark, but were very mantleable in NewDark because of the improved mantling).
    Emergent gameplay is cheating now?
    If something is exploitable in an obviously game breaking way it should be fixed properly, or left alone no? Not "should" as in Tfix author needs to implement it right now, but "should" as in it would work that way in an ideal game world.

  5. #5
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by mikjames View Post
    If something is exploitable in an obviously game breaking way it should be fixed properly, or left alone no? Not "should" as in Tfix author needs to implement it right now, but "should" as in it would work that way in an ideal game world.
    What is this incoherent garble?

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: May 2015
    Hello again Zylon, how many years has it been? Some might say you've grown a reputation for a lack of coherence yourself. Some might call what you do "trolling", but not this taffer. I consider it... good entertainment.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2021
    There's an interesting element that the genre itself adds to this discussion. The game itself is about going outside of the rules, about finding alternative ways to infiltrate some place without being noticed. So when the exploration leads to routes that are apparently unintended, you're somehow bending the rules even more. There's an added thrill that on top of being a thief in a place you aren't supposed to be when you get somewhere in the game world and feel, "I'm really not supposed to be here."

    In something like an Elder Scrolls game I'd be fine with invisible walls since accomplishing the quest by going elsewhere to get the key item feeds into the primary gameplay, and simply skipping that isn't terribly exciting. I am generally on the side of not tinkering with these things in games, since finding these things make it a more fun experience for me. Avoiding them is easily done. And I can see some limits needing to be in place - if skipping past some key point renders the rest of the level nonsensical (for instance, you somehow get into an area with nobody on alert when some alarm was supposed to go off and change their behavior), I'm in favor of fixing it. If it's something too far beyond reality, that should be patched too (e.g. jumping onto some rock caused a glitch that launched you over some high wall). I don't see that in the situations described above.

    If it comes down to a competitive situation (e.g. speedrunning or challenge modes) it isn't that hard to come up with explicit rules for it. I suppose ideally it would be on the option screen, where you could select if you wanted 'invisible barriers' on as a convenience for those cases, but that is typically not worth the effort.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2010
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    the only sketchy entry point that should probably fixed is in "Return to the Cathedral" level of Thief1/G

    In old-dark I was able to stack bones to mantle into an alcove then strafe/run/jump to the wall and go in via St Yora's roof and enter the cathedral back door. new dark you don't even need the bone pile.

    the only time I have ever used the talismans to open the front door was in my very first time playing. I have never again entered that way since.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •