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Thread: Weird reaction (to WaterStim) after changing object model

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Location: The Netherlands

    Weird reaction (to WaterStim) after changing object model

    Hi everyone!

    I have a question about a weird side-effect my object's reaction to a WaterStim is causing. I've created a 'lit candle' using the candle1l.bin original model, with my own custom candle flame on top of it. I've based this object on the existing candle object. Of course, I want this candle to be extinguishable and re-lightable with water and fire arrows respectively. So what I've done is:
    1. I've given the object Shape > Model Name: candle1l
    2. I've added S > Scripts > Extinguishable
    3. Of course I've given the candle the appropriate AnimLight properties and all that
    4. I've added 2 WaterStim effects. The first one has the effect 'Send to scripts', same thing that a standard torch uses. The second one has the effect 'Change object model', changing the model to candle1. Same thing with FireStim, but that changes it back to candle1l.

    And this actually works! It removes the light, removes the lit candle and replaces it with the unlit one. And you can re-light the thing, too! BUT: one weird thing happens. When I douse the candle with a water arrow, the object actually shifts down a little! And when I use more water arrows, the candle keeps sinking a little further every time! When I re-light the candle, (or when it's already lit but I use a fire arrow on it anyway) it doesn't shift. It only does it when I use the water arrows. I can't really figure out why this happens, and it's really annoying. Both models (candle1 and candle1l) have the same dimensions. Is there something I'm missing here? Does anyone here have an idea as to why this might be happening?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated I've searched this forum but couldn't (yet) find a similar issue.

  2. #2
    Dˇttirin klŠ­ist oft mˇ­ur m÷ttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    In DromEd, type
    set game_mode_backup 0
    then douse the torch. Back in DromEd, you can see if the torch has shifted (and why).
    Don't save after this. Restart DromEd to be sure.

  3. #3
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    In Thief 1 this happened on torches and I believe it had to do with the object model not being centered. Nameless Voice or R Soul would probably know for sure. So that might be the problem here with your candle model.

  4. #4
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Location: The Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    set game_mode_backup 0
    Thanks! I haven't used that mode before. However, after dousing the candles and going back to DromEd the only properties that have changed are the Z values in Position and Shape, and of course the AnimLight set to zero brightness. Can't find anything else, so I'm not sure how I can use this mode to see why the candle has moved downwards.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    I believe it had to do with the object model not being centered.
    Thanks for your reply! Do you know how I should go about centering the model? Is that something that should be changed in the .bin? I use candle1l.bin for the model, an unused model from TMA.

  5. #5
    Dˇttirin klŠ­ist oft mˇ­ur m÷ttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Load the model in question (or set game_mode_backup 0 again) and type in DromEd
    show_phys_models
    you'll see if that object collision models (blue boxes).

    To center the object, you need the 3ds model of that object. Maybe it's already fixed by someone.
    3ds to bin tool can center it (most likely)

    I just tried it in DromEd. Same setup. My candle don't shift.
    I've Tfix installed. You might try the candles in patches/obj.crf
    Last edited by Unna Oertdottir; 13th Apr 2018 at 10:49.

  6. #6
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Location: The Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    I just tried it in DromEd. Same setup. My candle don't shift.
    I've Tfix installed. You might try the candles in patches/obj.crf
    I'm using the model from Thief 2 obj.crf. I've used Tafferpatcher but there doesn't seem to be a 'fixed' or new patched model for the candles. I also have Thief Gold with TFix but there unfortunately doesn't seem to be a fixed one in patches/obj.crf either. Both the models from Thief 1 and 2 yield the same results for me...

    So now I'm kind of curious as to why your setup works and mine doesn't Or where you got your candle models from

  7. #7
    Dˇttirin klŠ­ist oft mˇ­ur m÷ttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    Also tried it in T2.
    You added the extinguishable script (I didn't). Try it without that script. What happens? The object shouldn't shift.
    Then delete the receptron for the water stim (Tweq--Models) and put the extinguishable script on the object again. Remember that the tweq halts at Model 5.

    Extinguishable
    gen.osm 1/G/2
    A derivative of AnimLight. Manages a model tweq that is active when the light is on, and halts at Model 5 when turned off. Makes the object suspicious or not accordingly. Responds to WaterStim and KOGas by turning off the light. FireStim will turn the light on.

  8. #8
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Location: The Netherlands
    Alright, I've made some progress. Thanks for your help so far, Unna Oertdottir! Here's what I've done:

    - I first got rid of the Extinguishable script, and the receptrons.
    - I've added Tweq > Models. (Halt: Continue, AnimC: Wrap, Model0: candle1l and Model5: candle1.)
    - After that, I added the Extinguishable script again.

    That worked. The object responds to water and fire arrows, and the candle doesn't shift downwards anymore! So that problem is solved.

    However: every first time I douse the candle with a water arrow, it still moves ever so slightly in the same direction as the arrow that hit it. If I keep hitting it with water arrows, it doesn't move any further, just the one time. So luckily this isn't as bad as the previous issue. But: when I re-light the torch with a fire arrow, and douse it again with another water arrow, it moves again. Very slightly, but it still moves. I'm still wondering why this persists... It's so weird.

    At least it doesn't move downwards anymore, which I think is way worse. And the candle only keeps moving if you keep dousing it, instead of it moving after every water arrow.

  9. #9
    Dˇttirin klŠ­ist oft mˇ­ur m÷ttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    In Tweq > Models, also write candle1 in Model1-4.

  10. #10
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Location: The Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by Unna Oertdottir View Post
    In Tweq > Models, also write candle1 in Model1-4.
    As far as I know that doesn't fix it. Two weird things are happening with this candle.

    1. The water arrow seems to (still) somehow push this candle forward. On one instance the candle even slightly moved upwards when I fired a water arrow at the base.
    2. If I enter the model name in Tweq > Models > Model0-Model4, the candle has a weird, jittery, glitchy animation somehow. (Using only Model0 and selecting 'wrap' under AnimC seems to sort of fix this...)

  11. #11
    Dˇttirin klŠ­ist oft mˇ­ur m÷ttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    The Extinguishable script is causing headache. Don't use it. It might be better to use NVRelayTrap script with WaterStim receptron to trigger animlight.

  12. #12
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Fields of bluegrass
    I dropped Extinguishable from some archetypes in Drymian Codex and handled it that way to avoid issues.

  13. #13
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Location: The Netherlands
    You guys are probably right. Thanks so much for the help, though! I really appreciate it!

    The candles kind of work the way I want for now, using the Tweq>Models. I'll probably try to fix them ultimately (using your suggestions) but I think I'm gonna leave them alone now for a little while This was indeed giving me headaches lol

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2007
    Location: LosAngeles: Between Amusements
    You could look at my setup for candles in Finals at the Academy if you want a proven approach.

  15. #15
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    looking at your setup, you are pretty much trying to recreate this.

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Location: The Netherlands
    Thanks LarryG and Voodoo47, for your replies! I should be able to create the right interaction with these candles using your setup, Voodoo47! The description of the setup on that page is very elaborate, thanks a lot

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