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Thread: The Great Tree

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Intarnet

    YES!!!

    At three hours, 9 minutes, and 29 seconds, on Expert, I have exited the level with all thirty fruit!!! I've never done so much rope climbing in a Thief game. It was really fun.

    Originally posted by Martek:
    But I have not given up yet on this hard spot!
    I ended up shooting arrows downwards in a staggered pattern, and the "walked" down the ropes, grabbing previous ones as I descended. This was one mother of a spot to get stuck in - but there *was* a fruit there, so I had to go for it.

    Great level, KoMaG!

    Cheers,
    Martek

    [ June 19, 2001: Message edited by: Martek ]

  2. #27
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Orem, UT, USA

    WOW! I'm very impressed! My commendations go out to you, good sir!

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Enköping, Sweden

    Sharga, I have the exact same problem. The level finishes when I get all the loot. So far I've seen this on 'The Varyx Obelisk' 'Gellers Pride' and 'The Great Tree'. It's so annoying! It takes the fun out of exploring....Mumble mumle... Grr! etc.

  4. #29
    Member
    Registered: Jul 1999
    Location: Los Angeles, CA

    Originally posted by belboz:
    using goal_final_n, 1 on the goal number that completes the mission is supposed to stop the level ending when you get all the loot. as the mission will only end when the goal with the final varible attacted to it is the last one completed.
    Where do I type "goal_final_n, 1"? I assume 1 represents the actual number of the goal.

    Jocke- It happened to you on the exact same three? Odd. What about any others?

    §

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...

    I think you just open your dark.cfg file in your Thief 1/Gold directory and add it as another line. You should be able to just stick it anywhere. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...

  6. #31
    Member
    Registered: Oct 1999
    Location: Calif., USA

    This was a GREAT mission! I had so much fun playing this. One reason is because Escape and The Sword are my two most favorite missions in Thief 1 and this mission really conjured up memories. It's great that some FM authors will spend so much time and energy on something so risky and different, not sure how fun it would turn out to be.

    I finished it on Expert. I was puzzled for awhile at the end because the mission wouldn't end where it was supposed to. I explored around a bit more, came back to the same place, tried again, paused for a moment and it finally ended.

    I'm not accusing anybody of being untruthful but I sure wish there was a way to record a demo or something of somebody actually completing this on expert with just one rope arrow. Let's say I remain somewhat dubious.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2000
    Location: Intarnet

    Originally posted by Bruny:
    actually completing this on expert with just one rope arrow. Let's say I remain somewhat dubious.
    I had three at a time deployed more than once. I *probably* could have got by with two - once I knew how things were layed out. I kept it in mind that I *only* needed one as I played, but I'm not sure how I could have succeeded with just one.

    Cheers,
    Martek

  8. #33
    Taking a break
    Registered: Dec 2000
    Location: Orem, UT, USA

    Originally posted by Bruny:
    I'm not accusing anybody of being untruthful but I sure wish there was a way to record a demo or something of somebody actually completing this on expert with just one rope arrow. Let's say I remain somewhat dubious.

    Thanks for the compliments on the mission. As far as using only 1 rope arrow, I myself have done it, and yes, on Expert! But since I MADE the mission, I am the most familiar with the terrain and such, so I'd be surprised if anyone else ever did the mission with only 1 rope arrow. The trick is in the climbing without any rope arrows to most places. You'd be surprised how much Garrett can mantle and climb up slopes if you do it just right

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...

    YES!! This mission has helped hone my Garrett skills somewhat. I was able to get into areas that would have previously required a rope arrow, but I was able to get Garrett to move diagonally and jump/mantle into places I didn't think I could get before.

    But, alas, I need a minimum of 3 rope arrows to finish the mission....on Slow Toes at that. I envy anyone who can get by with 2 or even 1...and on the harder difficulties...amazing!!

  10. #35
    New Member
    Registered: Oct 2000
    Location: king nc usa

    Tricks for getting up places:

    -lean forward while Garrett is moving up a slope. Hold down the lean key, this works well.

    -walk at a forty five degree angle by pushing runforward and runsideways at the same time. This builds up speed for jumping and going up slopes.

    -hit crouch and uncrouch really quick for a sudden boost (you don't have time to slide backwards when you hit crouch, and hitting uncrouch gives you a boost forward.)

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Nov 1999
    Location: Boulder, Colorado, USA

    Originally posted by Jocke:
    Sharga, I have the exact same problem. The level finishes when I get all the loot. So far I've seen this on 'The Varyx Obelisk' 'Gellers Pride' and 'The Great Tree'. It's so annoying! It takes the fun out of exploring....Mumble mumle... Grr! etc.
    Sorry about that bug. It should've been fixed in version 1.4b of 'The Varyx Obelisk'. What difficulty level were you playing when it happened? On higher difficulties, an early end was also happening when you found Black Blade after achieving all of the other objectives (the "New Objectives" didn't appear for the end-game). eek! I thought I had fixed those bugs in 1.4b.

    [ July 13, 2001: Message edited by: xarax ]
    "You would worry less about what other people think about you, when you realize how seldom other people think about you."
    Anonymous

  12. #37
    New Member
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Provo, Utah

    Like The Great Tree, huh? Just wait for his next mission...

  13. #38
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Finished on Slow Toes in 37 minutes with 6000 of 15000 total loot. I felt The Great Tree was a fun, unusual mission. Well done!

    When I read the mission objectives, I was initially worried all the healing fruit would be hidden in easily overlooked crevices or extremely hard to access locations. It turned out the loot goal was not too difficult to achieve, at least on Slow Toes: I found 5 healing fruit before I got to the second tree house and quickly found 3 more on that level without even trying. When I reached the Resurrection Fruit, I decided to explore the area before ending the mission and found another 4 nearby.

    I appreciated how the mission info file tells the player what the differences between the three difficulty levels are with regards to starting equipment and amount of enemies. More missions should do that.

    One very minor point of criticism: The mission objectives are written in third-person. I prefer mission objectives written in first-person because it makes me feel like I am reading Garrett's thoughts. This emphasizes I experience everything from his perspective. In contrast, third-person establishes a viewpoint of the player looking at what is happening from the outside, which emotionally adds a distance between myself and the action.

  14. #39
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    Komag, I love this FM so much! Played it 15 years ago and was playing it recently. Its awesome!

  15. #40
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...
    Quote Originally Posted by Karras35 View Post
    Komag, I love this FM so much! Played it 15 years ago and was playing it recently. Its awesome!
    This was Ben's latest profile; that original one was abandoned in 2001. So, he'd probably be glad to hear praise about one of his FMs.
    https://www.ttlg.com/forums/member.php?u=6826

    I'm sure he still gets his emails. Last activity about a year ago. Ben is a super-nice guy, got sidetracked with real life like someone else I know (myself). You could email him, he'd probably respond pretty quick.

    Think it might be time for a reunion anyway...

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Ben's contributions to the community can't be overstated. The TUT that launched a 1000 fan missions, the keep site. I can still remember fetching my FM discs from the mail box. Firing up Calendra's Legacy soon after! So long ago.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...
    I emailed him. I'm curious to see what he's been up to lately.

    Hullo, SlyFoxx!! Yes, I can remember those days, and fondly. We were part of that FM Disc Mailing system, free of charge, to whomever wanted to get copies of the then-current available FMs. Even back in those days, there were discs-worth of stuff, and it just kept growing. Dial-up for a lot of us, and in far reaches of the world.. I don't know how many I sent out on my own dime just to spread the legacy to everyone who wanted to get in on the fun.

    I'll never forget going to the local post office and trying to mail stuff to Norway, Finland, Romania, Poland... it's a wonder I didn't get more strange looks...

    Me: "Yes, sir, I need to send this to" —checks package— "Czechoslovakia. What? No, I'm not a Communist. I'm just helping a fellow gamer out. Er, how much? Wow, um, Airmail?? Uh.. can I send it 3rd class?"

    Postman: "Well, it has to go Airmail overseas, unless you want it to take 2 months to get there...? And... is it fragile?"

    Me: "Er, no, and yes. I don't think they want to wait that long." *sigh* "Good thing I've got a well-paying job. Yeah, go ahead, first class it is. It's worth it."
    Last edited by Hit Deity; 2nd Feb 2020 at 16:44. Reason: clarity in quotes

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2001
    Location: Marlboro, MA, USA
    Got your email Hit Deity!

    Yeah, I mailed out a ton of CD/DVDs over the years. Between 2001 and 2013 I sent 892 packages (consisting of 2937 discs, costing $1699 in postage) to 29 countries and 47 US States! There was always a completely free option (if people mailed me the blank discs and return packaging/postage, I would do the work), but many people opted to donate to the website instead which worked out pretty well to cover all the hosting and storage costs (which weren't cheap in the early years post dot com crash).

    Anyway, back to The Great Tree, I'm amazed anyone is playing it all these years later! When I built that monster it started out with a bunch of somewhat organically places clusters of dodecahedrons being copy-pasted all over the place, which I then went back and tweaked the heck out of, carving out niches and such, then added the various trunk and branch sections, then the tree houses and other stuff. All the strange angles I think overwhelmed the internal game physics engine at times, leading to some bugs of getting stuck or falling through geometry in places. It was originally a lot worse and I fixed as much of it as I could, mostly by just moving a few things a little and trying again while crossing fingers. I placed fruit by playing the level and finding interesting locations and then going back and sticking a fruit there, so again, not a big premeditated plan, but more like I was discovering the layout myself. I always loved rope arrows ever since I first played Bafford's Manor, so I made sure to have lots of ways to enjoy them in the mission. It was a unique design process to say the least, problematic in many respects, but I liked the outcome.

    2012-2015 I was somewhat heavily involved in Legend of Grimrock modding, made a few video tutorials, and contributed to some projects including making an updated version of the entire main game called "Master Quest" (in a bid to emulate the Zelda motif of having a second playthrough with changed dungeons and puzzles). You can see it here: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfil.../?id=132493547

    2014-Current I've been working on a hobby project programming a game from scratch for Roku (of all platforms!). You can see a (quite outdated 2016) preview of it here: https://youtu.be/OKOKN_t6_ps It's come a long way since that vid, but still retains the overall vibe of looking like an ancient monochrome green PC game from the 80s. I've never programmed anything before (other than a few simple scripts for Grimrock projects), so it's been fascinating trying to learn best practices and deal with my ever growing spaghetti code base.

    I don't have NEARLY the amount of free time I used to have 20 years ago! I have four young kids now between 3 and 10, and a busy job in Boston (where I've lived since 2003). Thief still has a big warm spot in my heart (even if I haven't played more than an hour of the 2014 game), so it's nice to see the forums still going strong! I typically check in every year or two.

    Best wishes all!

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Quote Originally Posted by Komag View Post
    Anyway, back to The Great Tree, I'm amazed anyone is playing it all these years later!
    I'd argue it is a must play for fans of Thief missions because there is nothing quite like it among hundreds of releases. It is the only mission I know set entirely in a gigantic tree.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...
    Quote Originally Posted by View Post
    I'd argue it is a must play for fans of Thief missions because there is nothing quite like it among hundreds of releases. It is the only mission I know set entirely in a gigantic tree.
    And that's the final word: a must play for fans.

    Without argument. Just an incredible accomplishment, full of fun, interesting places to find, and just the right amount of frustration, because you can see where you need to go, and you know you can do it... and you keep trying.. if you can just get that rope arrow to extend down... there!!! YES!!

  21. #46
    New Member
    Registered: Feb 2005
    Location: Germany
    Thank your for your reply Komag! For me it is very precious to hear how you built The Great Tree and that Thief has still a warm spot in your heart. It's also interesting for me to hear what you did during the years and what your are doing currently. I was never really active in the thief forums [I was active in a german forum called 'when-its-done' but it got closed 12 years ago] , usually I just read threads when I need help. Being a quiet bystander irregulary checking for new FMs or searching help. I never abandoned Thief for a long time. Of course there are other games, but Thief is special to me. My all-time-eternal favorite pc game. And here's my personal story behind The Great Tree: There was a period of time when The Great Tree was often on my mind, because I remembered playing this FM in my early thief days and I wanted to play this FM again so badly... But I could't figure out the name and therefore I couldn't find it for a long time. This drove me nuts for years, sporadically I was thinking about it and trying to find it. After years I finally asked in this forum for the name. I immediately received help and I felt kinda stupid that I didn't found it myself. Just wanted to let you know this little story. The Great Tree bothered me for years and for me it's a one-of-a-kind amazing unforgettable FM....

    After all these years everytime when I play Thief it gives me peace inside and fills me with nostalgia. Last time I browsed through the TTLG photo album, even when I don't know these people. It made me smile to see these old pictures of people who might already have forgotten Thief universe. I can't ever forget Thief. Thief will always be Thief. It brings back good memories. It overwhelms me and I can't put it into the right words... I see the hundreds, thousands of FMs, Modders, Scriptwriters and a still so active community and I just wanted to use this opportunity to thank you all for this. Your work and contribution will be alive forever. I wonder if the FM authors who are not active anymore still remember Thief. And I wonder if they are aware that there are people like you and me who still play their FMs 15 years later... I would love to know. So again, thank you Komag for letting me know. Next I will play all your other missions.

    I want to cheer up the community and the FM creators out there - even if the response and feedback to your FM-announcements might not always be so huge, be assured, there are people out there who appreciate your work and take quiet notice of your efforts and sooner or later will play your levels with great pleasure.
    Last edited by Karras35; 19th Feb 2020 at 20:43.

  22. #47
    Master Builder 2018
    Registered: Jul 2008
    @Karras35: Thank you for your wonderful post. It made me smile to read it, and I enjoyed your story of the search for this FM. Your love for the game shines through and it reminds me of my own. It was kind of you to take the time to encourage the authors and I'm sure all who read this will appreciate it.

    @Komag: Thanks for taking the time to post. It's great to see you here, and I really enjoyed hearing about what you've been up to. Quite a departure from Thief. Good luck to you on the new project. Btw, I still use your discs : )

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Location: Lost in the BSP...
    @Karras35: There were so many great influences, some gone, some still here... too many to name them all. But Komag had to be the greatest influence on me, not just for what he has done through his tutorial and other creations, but just his positive attitude was instrumental in keeping me going when I was ready to just give up.

    Not to slight anyone else who has influenced me positively, but my memory is horrible these days, and I keep saying I need to create a list..

    Thank you to anyone who has helped me and who continue to help. It's incredible the great and wonderful talent that keeps this thing alive. You're all magnificent.

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: May 2001
    Location: Boston MA

    Thank You Ben!!

    I was eating lunch at my desk one day and did a search on Thief. I was so depressed when Looking Glass blew up and I was never going to play new Thief missions.

    Then the search came up with Komag’s site. I learned about FM’s. Started playing - I was in heaven. I then did his terrific tutorial and have been playing/building ever since.

    Although there have been many influences and helpers along the way, I have a special place for KOMAG. Thank you Ben!!!!!!!

    I also had the pleasure of meeting Ben in person with my 2 sons (both Thief fans). They thought he was a God.

    Great to see he checks in now and then.

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