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Thread: Hanging Arrows bug

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012

    Hanging Arrows bug

    vfig recently started a new thread over at the Editors Guild asking if anyone knew how to prevent arrows hanging in the air after shooting them from your quiver. This is an ancient Thief engine bug that has plagued players since the early days.

    Various authors looked into this problem and discovered it that objects flagged as doors that also have the "Sphere" or "Sphere Hat" physics model type cause this problem.

    Jax has now made a couple of test dml's for both Keeper of the Prophesies and for What Lies Below, missions that experience this bug and the solution appears to work. The fix is easy to implement now we know what the problem is AND it appears that we can use the same fix for bodies that hang in the air after knocking out AI's

    Whilst bug testing I have come across hanging arrows and floating bodies too many times to count, but stopped reporting this bug over at Shadowbox because no solution was available, so we need your help in identifying missions that have this bug, if you know of any missions that could benefit from this fix or come across this bug in the coming months please post below or PM myself or Jax and we'll make dml's for them.


    Known Missions
    Burrick's Head Inn................Fixed
    Keeper of the Prophesies (Insurrection + The Other Side of Time)...........Fixed
    The Mirror..............Fixed
    Mirror of Return............Fixed
    Pereira's Mansion.............Fixed with older dml
    Rose Garden....................Fixed
    Rowena’s Curse...............Fixed
    Ruined (mission 1+2)................Fixed
    What Lies Below................Fixed
    Korrigans................Fixed
    The Sun without, The Sun within.......Fixed
    Last edited by fortuni; 18th Feb 2022 at 03:43.

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    i personally love the floating arrows in fan missions/thief universe it shows magic is strong

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Rowena's Curse was another one that was mentioned as having this bug.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    thanks, fortuni! i wasnt sure, having no yet tried it, it if a dml that just fixed the model type would be sufficient (since changing the model type in dromed can sometimes reset other physics properties). but i just tried your rose garden dml and loaded the savegame up in dromed afterwards to inspect, and the other physics properties are all looking fine. so im glad its less fiddly to fix than i feared.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    FYI this is what Jax posted over at Shadowbox

    Code:
    There is a new thread on The Editors' Guild detailing an issue involving arrows hanging in the air after being fired in some missions. 
    In short, objects flagged as doors that also have the "Sphere" or "Sphere Hat" physics model type cause this problem. 
    This is because the game assumes that all doors have the "OBB" model type in the mathematics pertaining to projectile collision with doors. 
    While all doors should have "OBB" set as their physics model type, this is a faulty assumption because it is possible to set up an object that is considered a door and also has a different model type. 
    More specifically, this becomes a problem because the size of the door object is retrieved from the vector contained within the "Size" field of the physics model 
    dimensions property. 
    On an object with the "OBB" model type, this is valid and the calculation is correct. 
    However, on an object with the "Sphere" or "Sphere Hat" model type, the "Size" field of this property will be a zero vector because the dimensions for these model types make use of different fields 
    ("Radius 1" and "Radius 2" for the "Sphere" type and just "Radius 1" for the "Sphere Hat" type). As a result of this, the calculation is incorrect and results in this phenomenon.
    Some of this information is not included in the thread at TTLG, so perhaps it would be prudent to provide this explanation there as well.
    
    There are multiple ways that we could go about fixing this in missions. Firstly, it is worth noting that the engine gives the door physics model flag (kPMF_Door)
     to any physical object with either the "RotDoor" or "TransDoor" property. 
    Additionally, this flag must be present for the mentioned calculation to occur. Consequently, if these properties do not need to be on the object, one option is to simply remove the property. 
    However, doing just this will not be enough to solve the issue, as the object must be rephysicalized in order to reinstantiate the phisics model and get rid of the door physics model flag. 
    Alternatively, if reasonable for the particular object, we can just remove the door property and disable collisions entirely by removing its physics type as well. If the object requires the door property, 
    another option is to set the physics model type of the object to "OBB", as this will populate the "Size" field of the physics dimensions property and allow the calculation to proceed correctly. 
    Both of these approaches should remedy the problem.
    Last edited by fortuni; 31st Jan 2022 at 00:15.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany

    "The Burrick's Head Inn" is another suspect. When playing the first version of this mission with Thief 2 before NewDark, I had the arrows I shot, after the final fight of two enemies, stuck in the air, and after a while, my computer ran slower and slower. It did happen only once, and I did not experience it again either with the first version of the mission or the v2.0 and the "Vintage edition".

    On a side note... In v2.0 (still in pre-NewDark times), if I blackjacked the two guards in the lobby, and then used the bell near the receptionist's desk, the two guys teleported to this place again - still unconscious and hovering at about waist height. I have seen some similar things with my dead and unconscious victims in other missions where some action (pressing a button, opening a door, etc.) made them appear at a certain location, thus I guess this is not the same problem as the "Hanging arrows bug" - but I'll leave the final decision about that to you.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: May 2008
    Location: Southern,California
    if you get hanging arrows while in mission from you shooting arrows,a simple fix is save then close out thief completely and restart the arrows will work then

    but if you play a mission when there is a random arrow just sitting in air and you did not shoot it/nor a npc shoot it, that is magic,and i don't mean a arrow that should be stuck into a item and author placed it a bit away from item ,but a arrow say in air in the middle of a forest/etc

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    The first post in this thread states that it is about arrows hanging in the air after the player shoots them from his/her quiver. Also, I think I had about 50 to 100 hanging arrows in "The Burrick's Head Inn" (I re-collected them to stop the notable lag caused by them), thus it's not just one single weird one.

    Reloading the saved game with that enormous amout of hanging arrows did not work back then. Restarting the whole mission did. But imagine how funny this is if you almost completed long missions like "Rowena's Curse", but then they turn into "Arrows' Curse(s)", and you have to start all over again.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by downwinder View Post
    if you get hanging arrows while in mission from you shooting arrows, a simple fix is save then close out thief completely and restart the arrows will work then

    but if you play a mission when there is a random arrow just sitting in air and you did not shoot it/nor a npc shoot it, that is magic
    Downwinder it not magic, it's a annoying bug that has existed in Thief from the very early days, and closing your game and reloaded is not a solution, but pure chance that the bug didn't reoccur. As for rogue arrows again they’re not magic either but misplaced objects, we remove them when we find them.

    @ baeuchlein
    Thanks for the input.
    Last edited by fortuni; 21st Jan 2022 at 20:37.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    another fm showing this problem: The Mirror of Return Part 2. i got hanging rope arrows while playing it, checked the mission in dromed, and sure enough it has several Door: Translating objects with Sphere physics. i think theyre for its teleporter rings.

    incidentally I also had several encounters with objects that i couldnt drop or throw after picking up, just stuck in my hands - a crate, a bedroll, and a torch. each resolved itself after either a reload or relaunch of the game. i dont know if this is also a side effect of the spherical door issue, or unrelated object breakage.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Thanks vfig.

    I sometimes come across not being able to drop or throw things and in some situations I find if I move to a completely different location I can, the bizarre 'curse of the forum' thing is each time I have reported such a thing to Glypher he's responded by saying yes you can drop it, so when I check again (ie reload) I never seem to be able replicate that bug.
    Last edited by fortuni; 26th Jan 2022 at 12:55.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    [QUOTE=fortuni;2482473]Downwinder it not magic, it's a annoying bug that has existed in Thief from the very early days, and closing your game and reloaded is not a solution, but pure chance that the bug didn't reoccur. As for rogue arrows again they’re not magic either but misplaced objects, we remove them when we find them.

    I think some of those rogue arrows are sometimes left behind when an archer is deleted from the map. When I find them I see them in the same slanted orientation that they are in when attached to the archer.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Goblins - Korrigans is also affected. I recently replayed it, and I couldn't play for more than 10 minutes before it started happening. Reloading the game only fixed it temporarily

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    Goblins - Korrigans is also affected.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2004
    Location: Germany
    I just remembered that I had something looking very similar to the grenade problem in "What Lies Below" in another mission, "The Skygem Connection". My old notes on the mission say that the Frogbeast eggs found in a secret passage often don't work. When I threw the eggs, and they impacted somewhere, they made a sound as if a large rock was thrown against the impact site, and then the eggs hung whereever they impacted, without yielding any frog. Might be worth a look as well.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2012
    Skygem Connection

    The current dml already fixes the Frogbeast eggs.

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