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Thread: Resizing a lot of architecture

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX

    Resizing a lot of architecture

    As I build along, I'm becoming afraid that I've started at the wrong scale.

    As you know you can multibrush-me using an area brush, but resizing is disastrous. If it could only be corner-anchored resizing, it might work, vs the center anchor if that makes sense. Does anyone know any tricks to do a corner anchor resize?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2011
    The anchor for a multibrush is the center of whichever brush within it is selected. Create a marker at your corner point (use the GFH to be sure it's exactly on grid, and set its size to 1x1x1 for good measure). Then make your multibrush selection, and shift+click the marker to include and select it. Then your resize will use the marker's center as the anchor.

    Regardless of the anchor you use, you should probably snap all the brushes you resized back to as large a grid size as you can for the geometry.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: Lexington, KY
    Sounds like a lot of headaches waiting to happen, perhaps you could mess with the player and AI size to balance the scale?

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Thank you everyone for the awesome suggestions!

    The truth is, I started to become upset at how I modeled the front door of Mothe-Chandeniers after the real one, and of course because I want the place not cramped, and more vertical gameplay fun, the handle was way above Garrett's reach.

    I started to have a internal fight, like maybe I should have been less say, 2x scale and more like 1.5x scale. And I felt like I revved up fans of the chateau way too much, so making it more to scale, became more pressure to please them.
    But you know what? I gotta let this anger go, and leave the place big. It's really for you guys, not them, and if I just make the doors large barn like doors, with sliding lock, and handle at waist level, it should be fine as I've seen other Chateaus have this way. It's for a large carriage to pass through. The shape of the clock area is extremely hard to reproduce at smaller grid sizes. And I don't want to mess with Garrett's size. It can get really weird fast.

    Finally the other doors are small as hell anyway. So they will come out almost normal. And it's so dilapidated, most the areas are gone, so you really can't get a feel for what scale, you should expect. You'll just assume it was a castle, which is fine. Whew... thanks for listening...
    Last edited by gamophyte; 10th Nov 2018 at 22:41.

  5. #5
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2015
    This may not be the answer you were hoping for, but I encountered the same problem in rebuilding a real house myself - the door handles were above Garrett's eyeline. I bodged that particular issue by slightly shortening the doors, and adding in a 2-unit horizontal window into the top of the doorframe. This preserved the overall size and visual impact of the doorway, while allowing the interactive objects themselves to be better scaled to the player.
    I'm not even close to being an expert in Dromed, but I've found, as you have, that the scales are difficult to judge sometimes.

    The only other tip I'd have for the future is to always drop an npc and a couple pieces of furniture into every room as you're making it. An empty room always seems somehow smaller and more cramped from the player's perspective, but as soon as you add some clutter it suddenly looks almost too big. It seems to be a fine line to tread.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Just wanted to say thanks Vfig! I love the anchor trick!!
    I was able to make a crate (easy to see) .05, .05, .05 and fit over my hinge nut,
    and perfectly rotated my static door from that point. This saved me such a headache!
    Last edited by gamophyte; 10th Sep 2019 at 14:10.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    One thing you can do if you need to resize doors is to resize them in Anim8or and then move the handles & joints back down to a reasonable height above the floor. If you don't resize the door on both height and width to maintain the same height to width ratio the texture will look stretched.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2012
    Location: Moscow, Russia
    I strongly do not recommend abusing multibrushes. In any case, after you put multibrush in its place, it is advisable to align each individual brush from this set with Shift and mouse.

    I rarely use multibrushes. Basically when I create windows. I used to ''borrow'' architecture from other missions, but this led to various errors and ultimately I had to remove all of this.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    I understand and am aware. Even after dissolving groups, grid snapping - highlighted unsnap, can still leave brushes off and a micro level you cannot see. I use multi brushes but every single brush is shift-dragged into place to ensure they snap to grid, then I tab through to check the addresses to make sure they made it. And in this case, there is just objects.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by gamophyte View Post
    I understand and am aware. Even after dissolving groups, grid snapping - highlighted unsnap, can still leave brushes off and a micro level you cannot see. I use multi brushes but every single brush is shift-dragged into place to ensure they snap to grid, then I tab through to check the addresses to make sure they made it. And in this case, there is just objects.
    Now that I play around with them more I don't want to scare anyone away from using multi-brushes. I think the issue with micro-changes to brush locations, is when you place or clone, then try and move whole group via mouse+[hold]shift. This appears to break them from grid - even if you type in manual location numbers after the fact. It's just like touching the group will with mouse+[hold]shift shatters it.

    However I noticed if you go straight to putting in whole DU numbers into location to move it, straight from clone or place, when dissolved, it appears to be coming out okay every time.

  11. #11
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    Yes, that is my experience, and you can also always do snapping after locating the multibrush where you want.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    Yes, that is my experience, and you can also always do snapping after locating the multibrush where you want.
    OK good point on this; actually yes if you are moving each brush after dissolved, manually with mouse+[hold]shift on each brush - it will snap to used grid. But what I found is if you move the whole group, and it breaks, just as I mentioned above, highlight unsnapped will give false positives. The dark blue will go away and you still click one of the brushes and you will see 14.002 <----- and it will never highlight again, Dromed thinks it's good but you will have bad geometry issues later on.

    I believe this is the snake in the grass that has scared people away from using multibrushes. And this is not a user mistake, as I said you can drag and see your crazy values, but even typing in whole DUs after the fact will not fix, just single snapping each one. Bottom line, never move multibrushes via mouse+[hold]shift when all green, only individual brushes after dissolve, or, if it must be the whole group moved manually, put in your coords manually don't dare use mouse+[hold]shift.

    I just fixed my mission as we speak by moving the left and right side 10 DUs away from each other. The front of the place won't look like it does in real life but it made the interior more realistic so it's worth it.

    PS. Oh and while I have you Yanny, thanks so much for the tips on this. It's been a learning experience. The best is the anchor brush trick, and loading MB only after selecting where it should fit into first.
    Last edited by gamophyte; 10th Sep 2019 at 15:05. Reason: PS

  13. #13
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    I guess I never worry too much about snapped multibrushes because I always only ever enter coordinates and translations by hand with them. And I agree, using an anchor brush makes multibrushes much easier to place quickly and accurately.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by gamophyte View Post
    The dark blue will go away and you still click one of the brushes and you will see 14.002 <----- and it will never highlight again, Dromed thinks it's good but you will have bad geometry issues later on.
    I don't ever get values like this unless I multibrush & clone brushes and objects at the same time. I've been using grid size 11 on everything except for the largest brush work, and I don't ever clone large brushes. If I multibrush a doorway which consists of one solid brush and one air brush, clone it, and then move the new doorway with the mouse+[hold]shift, the brushes end up at the same coordinates as if I had made each one manually.

    Gamophyte I wonder if there are any differences between our installations that would give different results.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: May 2017
    Location: USA
    You must have the magic touch, John, because I’ve never had any success with click/drag (plus shift) manipultation of multibrushes. Any type of mouse manipulation almost instantly and irreversibly destroys the multi brush.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Everyone has vbrush_snap enabled in their user.cfg?

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Sep 1999
    Location: Austin, TX
    Quote Originally Posted by john9818a View Post
    Everyone has vbrush_snap enabled in their user.cfg?
    I do. And don't get me wrong it looks like it snaps when I let go. But all the values for location are all jumbled afterward. No idea why this happens. But, luckily not a big deal, I just put in the values I want.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    This may or may not be the problem, but it's worth noting that a saved multibrush's location information will be taken from the most recently-added brush. So it's always a good idea to make sure a large terrain brush is the last piece you add to a multibrush. If the last part of a multibrush is an object nothing will be grid-snapped because objects aren't.

  19. #19
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    Yeah, that's part of the anchor brush technique I have described here before (in other threads).

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Texas
    Quote Originally Posted by trefoilknot View Post
    You must have the magic touch, John, because I’ve never had any success with click/drag (plus shift) manipultation of multibrushes. Any type of mouse manipulation almost instantly and irreversibly destroys the multi brush.
    I'm not sure about that but I do have a non-dromed related problem. Because of the cheap mouse that came with my new pc, the left mouse button sometimes double-clicks after moving a brush so I inadvertantly multibrush that brush with something random nearby.

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