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Thread: Epic Apple Legal Battle

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004

    Epic Apple Legal Battle

    So, Epic opened iOS Fortnite up to outside purchases, Apple promptly decided they were violating their Terms of Service, and now Epic has filed a legal injunction, which you can read here:

    https://cdn2.unrealengine.com/apple-...-734589783.pdf

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    A bit of a very technical document to link to, but not surprising since Tim Sweeney has been complaining non-stop for months about Apple's monopoly at every opportunity.

    Apparently all of the various "service" apps like Netflix don't allow you to sign up for an account from their iOS apps, and don't say why. They just redirect you to open the website on your PC.
    Why? Because if you sign up for anything on an iPhone, Apple demand a 30% cut. Not just of the actual apps sold on their store, but of any money transaction that involves any app on their phones.

    There was also a story about some people setting up online training courses using iPads as camera/screen devices, and when they started making money, Apple came after them demanding a 30% of that too.



    I personally don't understand why anyone would use an iPhone in the first place, but that's a different conversation entirely.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Yeah, they did the same on Google Play, but Apple was the one to take the bait.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I thought they just asked users to sideload Fortnite on Android, bypassing Google Play completely?
    But you can't sideload on iOS, since it's a completely closed platform.

  5. #5
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    They eventually released the game on Google Play and then sidestepped it with their direct payment stuff: https://www.epicgames.com/fortnite/e...ment-on-mobile.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    So, now Apple say they're going to terminate all of Epic's developer accounts and revoke their access to all Mac and iOS tools, effectively killing off Unreal Engine on their devices, including any and all games that currently use the engine.
    (Presumably the games will remain as-is, but they can never receive engine updates if Epic can no longer develop for the platform.)

    https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295431772889649153

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Nameless Voice View Post
    So, now Apple say they're going to terminate all of Epic's developer accounts and revoke their access to all Mac and iOS tools, effectively killing off Unreal Engine on their devices, including any and all games that currently use the engine.
    (Presumably the games will remain as-is, but they can never receive engine updates if Epic can no longer develop for the platform.)

    https://twitter.com/Slasher/status/1295431772889649153
    I expect that will blow up in Apple's face more than it will harm Epic. But both parties will eventually get hurt by that.

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Unity's happy, lol.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    Exclusive statement from Unity:


  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: The Plateaux Of Mirror
    Why can't everyone just get along for China's sake.

  11. #11
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Haha, kettle and pot fight to the death. What a treat.
    If we're lucky they'll rip each other apart and then nobody gets a monopoly.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Why are Epic a "kettle" again?

    There's a huge difference between "you can only buy this product from our shop" and "we have the only shop on this platform and you can only buy the products we allow; also we'll take a massive cut of everything done on our platform."

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Somewhere
    yeh i would hardly say Epic has a monopoly at all, and I am pretty sure all of us here have availed themselves of at least a few of the free games.

  14. #14
    Moderator
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Location: NeoTokyo
    Not monopoly, just exclusivity. It's a throwaway joke. Remember those?

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: melon labneh
    I'm really interested in how this will play out. I understand that iOS is a closed ecosystem that doesn't allow delivery of content outside of its store, which does make sense for security reasons, but at the same time this is placing them as a mandatory controlling party for any sale on an extremely popular platform. Antitrust laws don't seem that clear cut to me and I definitely see a possibility to rule in favor of Epic, in which case Apple could be forced to allow third-party stores. Or maybe the time where governments could force major tech actors to change (e.g. Windows N editions) has passed and we are now too far into cyberpunk.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by demagogue View Post
    It's a throwaway joke. Remember those?
    Probably lost my sense of humour after the amount of baseless vitriol that I've seen directed at Epic by a combination of Steam fanboys, anti-China racists, conspiracy theorists, and now Apple fanboys.

    People almost never attack them for their actual faults, instead they always attack them for made-up stuff.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: melon labneh
    You don't need to be a Steam fanboy to find them exceedingly aggressive. While I am the first to agree that competition to Steam was sorely needed to help developers negotiate a bigger cut, introducing timed exclusives has been an ugly result for any consumer that doesn't want to install yet another web-facing, metadata-gathering, community-fragmenting, gaping security hole on their PC.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    And yet there was never a fraction of as much outcry for games launched on uPlay, on Origin, on GOG, etc. Or games that come with and install their own launchers, like Rockstar games, League of Legends, etc.

    I don't particularly like their launcher, but it's perfectly fine for occasionally installing a game, and you don't even need to launch the games through it, or even have it running while playing them. You can simply add them to GOG Galaxy, or PlayNite, or even to Steam as non-Steam games.

    The whole thing is a made-up non-issue.

    Complain about real problems, like their lack of user reviews, their missing features at launch (many of which they do now have), their disregard for Linux, their terrible customer support, or the fact that they are mostly interested in large developers while pretty much ignoring anyone who isn't on UDN. You can even complain that Tim Sweeney is arrogant and has stupid opinions.
    Don't complain about nonsense because a lot of angry people on Reddit kicked up a huge fuss about it, often with flawed or faulty information.
    Last edited by Nameless Voice; 18th Aug 2020 at 12:40.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2002
    Location: melon labneh
    What is most important to me is data privacy and security. Call me a fool if you want but it is not a non-issue. Fuck launchers and increasing attack surface. I will never use Origin, uPlay, Galaxy, the Rockstar Launcher or the Epic Store for that matter. If I could get rid of Steam (now I have far too many games on it) and the Xbox live stuff that is integrated into Windows I would in a heartbeat. If I could get rid of game installers, I would in a heartbeat.

    Anyway if you like and because I'm a clear outlier/madman you can forget about the second half of my previous post. My only major complaint about Epic is normalizing store exclusives (along with other third party launchers) and their obviously fake benevolent approach that actually doesn't give a shit about anyone, but that's true for all stores. And yes, Sweeney is an asshole.

    In any case, back to the topic, I see more and more articles mentioning Apple only, but I thought Fortnite had been pulled from the Play store too. Isn't there a lawsuite with Google as well?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Briareos H View Post
    In any case, back to the topic, I see more and more articles mentioning Apple only, but I thought Fortnite had been pulled from the Play store too. Isn't there a lawsuite with Google as well?
    There is a lawsuit against Google, but the initial major blitz from Epic's side was against Apple.

  21. #21
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    This all seems strangely familiar...


  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    Quote Originally Posted by Briareos H View Post
    What is most important to me is data privacy and security. Call me a fool if you want but it is not a non-issue. Fuck launchers and increasing attack surface.
    Linux beckons. "Come," whisper the daemons, "come to a place where you can be both free and safe."

  23. #23
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    "Free to play games?"

    "No, free from playing most games."

  24. #24
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2002
    Location: Maupertuis
    The daemons grow angry. "You mock our Valve, who is one of us? You truly do not know that one game in five appears on Linux? Then drink of our Wine instead, and every game within windows will be yours."

  25. #25
    Still Subjective
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Yeah, one in five isn't great.

    Does it affect MP too? I still play 1v1 Company of Heroes 2 from time to time, and word in the CoH2 forums is Mac doesn't cross play with PC so the pool is smaller. To me that's more of a problem, for that type of game, than whether it runs or not.

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