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Thread: News: The New McCarthyism

  1. #1
    Member
    Registered: Aug 1999
    Location: Bath, England.

    News: The New McCarthyism

    No, not about Edge's News Editor's habit of being wrong about anything.

    http://www.progressive.org/0901/roth0102.html

    KG

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001

    Time for all people still able to think and have an own opinion to come over to Europe.
    As should those people from the rest of the world.
    And then we'll take Europe of into space and leave earth behind.
    Yeah.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Oxford, England

    No there can be no running from this menace. We stand our ground.
    'An anarchist is a liberal with a bomb'

    Trotsky

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Sat at my desk.

    Shoot me down but I kind of think that US agencies are a bit fucked these days no matter what they do.

    I mean two airliners get hijacked and flown into one of the most recognisable buildings in the world. "Jesus Christ, where were the security services?".

    News reports take delight in showing retrospectively how easy it would've been to identify such antiamerican activities if only they'd being trying a bit harder.

    Security services start trying harder and then get levelled with references to McCarthyism.

    Whaddya want? Bells on it?

    When they start hauling people off to concentration camps I'll start a rebellion. Until then, all I see is a bunch of 'reports' getting followed up and some agents who didn't share the complainants taste in art. Big Fucking Deal.

    It's not nice, no. But then look around you. What is?

  5. #5
    TheWatcher
    Guest

    [quote]Originally posted by Always_Black:

    News reports take delight in showing retrospectively how easy it would've been to identify such antiamerican activities if only they'd being trying a bit harder.



    Perhaps someone should try telling people that hindsight is an exact science....

    [quote]
    When they start hauling people off to concentration camps




    Hmm..

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/afghanistan/story/0,1284,632394,00.html

    Sounds like concentration camps in all but name to me.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England

    You're right. When we said "Please stop people from flying planes into buildings, because of you're unethical foreign policy" We actually ment "Please violate our personal liberties and supress our right to freedom of speach"

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2000
    Location: Leeds, UK

    Time to put the quotes ABOVE the sig line...

    “Only in a police state is the job of a policeman easy."
    Orson Welles

    "Tyranny is always better organised than freedom."
    Charles Péguy

    Anyone know the story about Hitler's great art exhibition of 1937?

    Hitler denounced all modern art as the products of "morbid and perverted minds", famously shouting at one painting by Franz Marc; "There are no blue horses!"

    Particularly singled out for scorn were were impressionist art, expressionism, cubism and furturism because they were "other than the most commonplace naturalism."

    It didn't help that Picasso was giving the Spanish Fascists a rocket up the arse at the time.

    To prove the degeneracy of Jewish and other non-Aryan art, he arranged to put on a tour of this so-called decadent art.

    Hitler's art historians gathered up all the most 'decadent' art they can find, including works by Chagall, Edward Munch, Kandinsky and Paul Klee and took it on tour throughout Germany.

    It was supposed to demonstrate how crap they were, but ended up being lauded by the international press as the most impressive exhibition of modern art of the 20th century.

    Politics and art? The former should never interefere with the latter - the latter can f**k with the former all it wants, in my book.

    ---

    ]IMB0[0P

    "F**k art, let's dance!"

    [ January 15, 2002: Message edited by: JimboCop ]


  8. #8

    A_B: Agreed, _except_, when people are losing their jobs over it, it's a problem.

  9. #9
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2001
    Location: The North, UK

    The worrying thing about this story is not the behaviour of the security services. While that is a little sinister, as AB says, they have a duty to follow up on any reports they receive.

    The truly scary thing about it is the fact that they are receiving those reports at all. The mindset of the nation has been distorted to the point that people are ringing the fucking FBI because their neighbour has a satirical poster on the wall. The worst stories in that article are about the actions of people themselves, the firing of the pacifist journalist and the bullying of the agit-prop schoolgirl.
    colcob
    The Narcissus Entity
    [!]

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Sat at my desk.

    I'd go with Col, except aren't accusations of McCarthyism the backswing of the same thing?

    In fact, now we have two nicely polarised sides we can have a riot. I'll bring the looting bricks and some munchies.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Oxford, England

    Unfortunately its not quite that simple. In the US, the vast majority (even those who claimed to be liberal) are now fully behind operation Desert Strike 2: Enduring Infinity with A Vengeance. That means a riot over there would just make our sort of people more unpopular. And over here, nobody seems all that bothered one way or the other as long as they get regular injections of their favorite soap operas. A riot cannot take place on the streets where people are still in houses watching TV. It destroys the image of a popular revolt!

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2001
    Location: Cumbria, England

    [quote]Originally posted by colcobb:
    The truly scary thing about it is the fact that they are receiving those reports at all. The mindset of the nation has been distorted to the point that people are ringing the fucking FBI because their neighbour has a satirical poster on the wall. The worst stories in that article are about the actions of people themselves, the firing of the pacifist journalist and the bullying of the agit-prop schoolgirl.


    Point.

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001

    Roght now I don't think the agencies have done anything significantly problematic.
    But now remember that this is democracy. So the problematic atmosphere will translate into actions of the administration sooner then later, and then McCarthyism can arise again. You wont get there when the public doesn't want there (or at least not as easily, or at least your first step would be to manipulate the public into wanting to go there which si really not neccesary at the moment...)

  14. #14
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2002

    I've just returned from 3 months over in the US.....I think it is important to point out how completely blown away people are over there...and I dont mean just the commentators.....the phrase '9-11' can be heard from eveyones lips from staff in a grocery to kids in a playground.
    It might be sobering to remind people of the reaction of the UK authorities to the IRA actions in the 70s......irish accent equalled got to jail, do not collect £200........so this is not just an amwerican type of reaction, consequently I feel calling it 'McCarthyism' is a lil misleading......this is paranoia.....it is up to all of us who can communicate to try and argue sympathetically against this.
    having worked with children on the at risk register in the Uk, I know that confronting responses formed by traumatic events is rarely a good answer, no matter how much fun the idea of carthasis actually is......so, in this case I say cut the US a lil slack, at least for a while.....

    p.s. of course when I say cut 'em some slack , I wholly disinclude dubya as he is clearly a twat (also apparently a word meaning some sort of immature avian)

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Sat at my desk.

    That's kinda what I meant (about the American reaction, not the immature birds). The 'look! look! McCarthyism!' kick is a sort of equal and opposite reaction to the 'bomb them back to the stone age' stuff. Like a see-saw, see?

    Let's wait until we see what side the see-saw comes down on before we going over and tell them how they should be _really_ reacting.

    p.s. I have a fragment of memory that says that the mouthparts of insects are scientifically labelled in an identical manner to female genitalia. Is this correct or just another manifestation of my corrupted memory?

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001

    So is it:
    "Think first act second" or "Act first think second"?

  17. #17
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2002

    I'm not arguing for act first or think first.....I'm simply pointing out that the american reaction is human, not confined simply to the american experience and (hopefully) tempoary
    it is also regerettable, wrong and not going to help......but neither does pointing the finger of McCarthyism
    what happened on september 11th was traumatic, if anyone has had friends who have been through trauma, then they may have seen them do stupid things. calling them bad people because of it, doesnt help

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001

    "it is also regerettable, wrong and not going to help"

    Exactly, calling them bad people doesn't help, but not telling them that it is wrong will not help either and only make them hurt themself.

    Also "it's human" is a kinda week excuse. One used by rapists and such, as well, what it really means is that the instinct outweighs all other parts of the human so this state of beeing is not "human" it's in fact "non-human"...

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Sat at my desk.

    It's "Think first, act second." And that goes for everybody.

    Yes, even you at the back! Don't think I can't hear you talking amongst yourselves. Pay attention in class!

    Shit happens. Fact of life. Nobody is 'good', nobody is 'evil', nobody is 'right', nobody is 'wrong' it's all just a bunch of people making a whole lotta noise.

    Pick a side, by all means, but wait until the roulette wheel's stopped spinning before you place any more bets. If I can mix a metaphor.

  20. #20
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2001

    Point is the players may be gasping for air and holding their breaths as the ball springs an unexpected way but the roulette never stops.
    THe ball may settle at one field for a couple of turnings and then you get a temporary winner but before he can leave the Casino with what he's won the ball is already up in the air again dancing wildly.

  21. #21
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Oxford, England

    sooooooooooooooooooo......................how long do we have to think for before we start picking fights?
    'An anarchist is a liberal with a bomb'

    Trotsky

  22. #22
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2001
    Location: Sat at my desk.

    >> how long do we have to think for before we start picking fights?

    Personally, I think for so long I always come to the conclusion that there's no point in picking a fight. Think hard enough and you'll realise that you're only fighting because you _like_ fighting and not because it's actually going to change anybody's point of view.

    Fight, by all means, and I wish you luck, but realise you're only doing it for it's own sake and no other. And if you win you'll be able to write in the history books about how right you were.

    I think this is what CIM said, roughly, but this gambling metaphor got so deep I had to play online blackjack and now all I can think about is winning my losses back. Life, eh?

    Despite the cost of living, it's still very popular.

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