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Thread: ☣ Coronavirus ☣

  1. #3276
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Quote Originally Posted by Azaran View Post
    ...28 patients...


    This thing is killing thousands of people a day. We should be able to do better than that.

  2. #3277
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Agreed

  3. #3278
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Setting this stuff up is really hard though. 28 patients is pretty good!

  4. #3279
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Ok found the full text of that new zinc trial:

    Previous research has shown that zinc can interfere with proteolytic processing of polyproteins in RNA viruses1, and the RNA polymerase of SARS-CoV-12. Coronaviruses frequently cause the common cold. A recent meta-analysis of 7 randomized controlled trials (RCT’s) showed that zinc lozenges shortened the mean duration of the common cold by 33% (95% CI, 21-45%)3. Hospitalized COVID-19 patients taking supplemental zinc in addition to standard therapy were reported to have lower death rates4, and patients with lower zinc levels on admission had higher mortality5. We recently reported that 4 outpatient COVID-19 patients taking high dose oral zinc appear to recover shortly after initiation of zinc6.

    We retrospectively reviewed consecutive cases of laboratory confirmed COVID-19 (26 cases), or CDC case definition (2 cases), who were started on zinc gluconate/citrate lozenges (23 mg of elemental zinc, 21 patients) or zinc acetate lozenges (15 mg of elemental zinc, 7 patients), at a total dosage of 2 to 2.5 mg/kg/day. Patients were instructed to place one lozenge on their tongue q2-4 hours while awake, for a minimum of 10 days. Depending on weight, patients took between 6 and 12 lozenges daily. Written or verbal consent was obtained prior to treatment. The median number of days between symptom onset and initiation of zinc was 4 days, ranging from 1 to 21 days after onset of symptoms. The mean age was 40: 17 female, 11 male, 3 Hispanic, 3 Asian, 1 African-American and 21 Caucasian. Patients were contacted daily for symptom evaluation, and for side effects.
    Ten symptoms were scored according to a COVID-19 symptom checklist , categorized on a 3 point scale: 0-no symptoms,1-mild, 2-moderate, 3- severe. Fever and shortness of breath were further defined as follows: Fever 0 - 98.6, 1-  98.6-100.0, 2- 100.0 – 102.0, 3-  102.0. Shortness of breath (SOB) 1= moderate intensity exercise, 2= with walking on flat surface, 3= with any movement or at rest.
    Cough, nausea/vomiting, diarrhea, sore throat, headache, muscle/body aches, fatigue and loss of smell/taste were also assessed.

    All 28 patients were improved after 7 days of zinc. Symptomatic improvement began a mean of 1.6 days after zinc treatment. Patients 40 or older took an average of 2.1 days to improve vs 1.4 days for those under 40 ( p40 aged patients, vs 10 days vs 5 days), and type of zinc salt (zinc gluconate/acetate vs sulfate).

    The mechanisms by which zinc may help COVID-19 patients are unknown, but include direct inhibition of viral replication, improvement of mucociliar clearance of SARS-Cov-2, reduction of secondary bacterial infection, improvement of lung and kidney tissue healing after ischemia, modulation of T and B lymphocytes, and restoration of interferon-alpha production8,9. Zinc supplementation reduces the incidence of pneumonia10, and improves outcomes in diarrhea11. In addition, mild zinc deficiency is often present in those groups at highest risk from COVID-19; namely, the elderly, diabetic, obese, and hypertensive8.

    In mild cases of COVID-19 about 80 % of patients begin improving after day 10; 20% worsen the second week. Zinc treated patients began improvement after 1.6 days on average. Patients older than 40 began recovery slightly later than under 40; however, the clinical outcome at 7 days was the same, and this is not the typical COVID-19 course.
    A recent report12 by the CDC showed that among symptomatic adult COVID-19 outpatients, 35% were still symptomatic 2-3 weeks after testing positive. For those with SOB, one-third experienced these symptoms weeks later. By contrast, all 9 of our patients who were SOB began improving after 2 days, and none were SOB after 7 days. Except for fatigue, all 28 patients were symptom free after 3 weeks.
    This study has limitations intrinsic to any retrospective review: absence of blinding and a control group. However, given the low toxicity and cost of oral zinc, it would seem prudent to begin testing of zinc in a controlled trial.
    Last edited by Azaran; 21st Jan 2021 at 17:04. Reason: Emphasis

  5. #3280
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    We went into lockdown again on 20th December at which point Wales had the 2nd highest number of cases per 100,000 in the world. The cottage hospital is full. In the care home down the road, all residents and half the staff tested positive. We now have a local testing site. Family have had Covid-19 now and one friend died at the age of 50.

    On the plus side, I know which vaccination group I'm in and I know how many people are in that group and the groups before and after me. F-in-law is in the 2nd group and based on the number of vaccinations that had been done, I made a rough calculation that he'd have his first in the first two weeks of February. As it happened, his doctor rang him on Tuesday and offered him a spot yesterday afternoon which he took. So NHS Wales seems to be moving faster than I'd thought. It didn't hurt at all and his arm didn't hurt afterwards either.

    Gotta say I'm truly grateful we have a national health service and I don't have to spend my time scrabbling around looking for somewhere to get a vaccination.

  6. #3281
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    The vaccination program has been handled very badly though, with people booked for the 2nd vaccine being turned away.

    We need another election already.

  7. #3282
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Netherlands
    We have a 9 PM - 4.30 AM curfew since Saturday. Some degenerates are protesting the curfew, or I should say there are plain riots going on.

    https://nos.nl/video/2365922-in-beel...avondklok.html

    In this 2 minute video (just images, knowledge of Dutch language not required), first you see The Hague, the second city you see is Enschede, a city in the east of the country where I live. I heard the police sirens yesterday night, but I live too far from the city center to hear anything else, thankfully.

    Corona policy protesters claim the corona policies of closed stores/bars, and only take-out/delivery at restaurants, are inhumane because these places are at risk of going bankrupt. But then these people break the windows of these very same stores. And they're saying normal healthcare for regular health issues is diminished because everything revolves around corona care. But then they try to break windows of the hospital in my city (and they've destroyed a corona test facility in another town). I seriously can't even...

  8. #3283
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Another drug showing positive results, colchicine, a common anti inflammatory.


    An extensive study launched by the Montreal Heart Institute last March has concluded the anti-inflammatory medication colchicine can reduce some of the complications associated with COVID-19.

    In a statement issued Friday, the institute described its findings as a “major scientific discovery” that could help millions of COVID-19 patients around the world.

    Colchicine, an oral tablet that’s inexpensive and easy to make, is already known and used for other diseases. The study looked at its effects on 4,159 COVID-19 patients.

    Patients involved needed to be over the age of 40 and have at least one risk factor for possible complications. The results showed the medication helped reduce hospitalizations by a quarter, the need for mechanical ventilation by half and deaths by 44 per cent.

    Researchers involved believe colchicine could become the first oral medication to be used to treat non-hospitalized COVID-19 patients.

    Article content continued
    In a statement, Dr. Jean-Claude Tardif, director of the MHI Research Centre, said the medication could have a “significant impact on public health and potentially prevent COVID-19 complications for millions of patients.”

    The institute said prescribing colchicine to patients could also help lower the number of people hospitalized with COVID-19 and “reduce healthcare costs here and around the world.”

    Called “COLCORONA,” the clinical trial was conducted in Canada, the United States, Europe, South America and South Africa.

    The institute had received a $3-million grant to fund the trial in May.

  9. #3284
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    Colchicine reduces inflammation by fucking with white blood cells (reduced division, motility, inflammatory processes), which are presumably needed to fight the infection, so it will be interesting to see how that pans out.

    Relevant journal article here (not sure if it's the one the article above refers to or not).

  10. #3285
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    It's also a potential real mofo in overdose, and it's not hard to OD on.

    I'll watch this one with caution.

  11. #3286
    Member
    Registered: May 2004
    The US doesn't seem to know what to do with all the hydroxychloroquine (apparently, donating it to malaria patients is out of the question for some reason):

    https://www.readfrontier.org/stories...xychloroquine/

    The Oklahoma Attorney General’s Office has been tasked with attempting to return a $2 million stockpile of a malaria drug once touted by former President Donald Trump as a way to treat the coronavirus.

    In April, Gov. Kevin Stitt, who ordered the hydroxychloroquine purchase, defended it by saying that while it may not be a useful treatment for the coronavirus, the drug had multiple other uses and “that money will not have gone to waste in any respect.”
    https://www.politico.com/states/flor...ant-it-1292638

    TALLAHASSEE — Florida is sitting on more than 980,000 unused doses of hydroxychloroquine, a drug President Donald Trump touted as a “game changer” in the fight against the coronavirus, after only a handful of hospitals in the state asked for access to the medicine.

    Gov. Ron DeSantis said in April that the state was getting 1 million doses of the drug. The announcement was made during a press conference that came across as a commercial for hydroxychloroquine. Held in the Florida Cabinet room, the event featured the video testimonial of a patient who had taken the drug, a question-and-answer session with a doctor who endorsed the treatment, and DeSantis touting the drug by name, even as he referenced other experimental treatments for Covid-19 only vaguely.

    Despite the governor’s pitch, few hospitals have requested the drug, which was provided free-of-charge from Israeli drug maker Teva Pharmaceuticals in a deal DeSantis said was facilitated by U.S. Ambassador to Israel David Friedman.

  12. #3287
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    This is why I urge extreme caution on these experimental treatments. So many will come to nothing and here are choice cases where the over enthusiasm sans der evidence has lead to stupid stupidity.

  13. #3288
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2009
    Location: thiefgold.com
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    This is why I urge extreme caution on these experimental treatments. So many will come to nothing and here are choice cases where the over enthusiasm sans der evidence has lead to stupid stupidity.
    So much for colchicine, but at least there's some good news on the vaccine front

  14. #3289
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    That's good news (and not too unexpected given how little freedom the virus has to change its spike protein without losing ability to keep infecting).
    If this vaccine gets rolled out in a sustained fashion and there is a low level of anti-vax / spontaneous clinical trial armchair experts (I'll wait until it's tested properly types), then the rate of mutation will decrease proportionate to how many humans are still propagating it - reducing it to the level of a seasonal flu virus (albeit one with worrying severity & morbidity).



    We won't quite be back in the good old days of "yes, I too lost a sibling to tuberculosis", but slightly less comfortable during the seasonal virus outbreaks.
    I can also see there being an annual Rona Jab to keep on top of any mutations which do manage to evade the vaccine.

    That's my current take anyway, may change when we find out more.

  15. #3290
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    That's my take too. Fingers crossed.

  16. #3291

  17. #3292
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    The vaccination program has been handled very badly though, with people booked for the 2nd vaccine being turned away.

    We need another election already.
    I haven't heard that here, at least not yet. Wales has fewer than 3 million people so they ought not to be making too much of a mess of it.

    F-in-law reported feeling groggy the day after his vaccination but that was all. M-in-law had her first this morning in a town about an hour away (same county). They had fewer Group 2 so have started Group 3. I don't know what the procedure is but we have 3 counties under one health board so I guess there's a possibility we could go anywhere in those counties.

  18. #3293
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    Quote Originally Posted by SubJeff View Post
    The vaccination program has been handled very badly though, with people booked for the 2nd vaccine being turned away.
    We need another election already.
    Are you talking about the UK?

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/...pe-by-country/
    UK in the lead, 11.67 vaccinations per 100 population.
    Second place Malta and Serbia, 5.33.
    Then Iceland 4.55, Denmark 3.82, Slovenia 3.41.
    And then slowly dropping off.

    The Netherlands? 1.19 per 100. Only Bulgaria, Latvia and Russia are doing worse.
    I think you don't have much to complain about in the UK.

  19. #3294
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    That data is only for single dose. Subliminal Jeffrey was referring to how the recommended course of 2 doses was being handled.

  20. #3295
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Yep.

    Even healthcare workers are having the second dose cancelled exactly because they want to give loads of first doses and look good on those stats.

  21. #3296
    LittleFlower
    Registered: Jul 2001
    Location: Netherlands
    We haven't given 2nd doses either. And we've done one tenth of what the UK has done. I had hoped to get vaccinated before july. Now I'm afraid I still won't be vaccinated by the end of the year.

    Fuck 2020. But it looks like 2021 is gonna be just as bad. After 57 weeks of social isolation, as a person who lives by himself, who currently doesn't have a job or income, I'm really fed up with this bullshit. The last thing I need is a Dutch government that fucks up our national vaccination plan.
    Last edited by Gryzemuis; 30th Jan 2021 at 16:54.

  22. #3297
    Quote Originally Posted by raph View Post
    It's gonna blow over (most likely) or we're all on the verge of watching The Stand in real-life (I think meteor strikes are more probable than that)

    Either way I couldn't possibly care less.
    Well that aged gracefully...

  23. #3298
    verbose douchebag
    Registered: Apr 2002
    Location: Lyon, France
    My initial reaction to the virus was very "this seems like a lot of media fuss about nothing".
    It's ok to be wrong, so long as you don't stay wrong on principle.

  24. #3299
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Lol raph.

    You did put in a bit about The Stand so you're covered for the negative predictions.

    I'm always very pessimistic about these things, but I still remember our operating theatre recovery taking swine flu overspill and having to get fitted for PPE in case I needed to work in ITU. Thankfully that's all behind me. A lot of my friends and ex-colleagues are seeing horrors though. Some will end up with PTSD, no doubt.

    Worth a read: https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...-patients-eyes

  25. #3300
    BANNED
    Registered: Dec 1999
    Location: Idiocy will never die
    Vaccination stats.

    We are doing pretty well in comparison. Shame about those second doses. Also - go Israel and UAE!

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