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Thread: Beating a dead source

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2019

    Beating a dead source

    Apparently there was some discussion of the T2 source code 10 years ago. I'm a bit late on the uptake, but it sounds like a fun time.

    I get that it's a sensitive issue, but did that discussion produce any reference documentation? Or anonymized transcripts? Anything?

    I'm wondering if there might be a fair use defense for secondary material if it's educational and doesn't contain explicit code. But that's probably wishful thinking. Has a real live lawyer ever chimed in?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    This is the leaked source code you are talking about:

    https://gofile.io/d/MDy1jo

    This is supposed to be incomplete.
    I cant remember where I got it from...
    Check it out. It seems to be the real deal.

  3. #3
    Well it produced NewDark, so there's that. I had a look at the leaked source to suss out the .mis file format in order to speed up AngelLoader's game type scan, but ended up mostly referencing Telliamed's WinDromed source. Shrug.

  4. #4
    New Member
    Registered: Mar 2019
    NewDark's not open source, is it? Am I gonna have to wait for that code to get found in a bag too?

    I'm mainly after the insights of the people who figured it out. My intuition would be that some documentation could be legally shared as long as it avoided quoting copyrighted material (since none of that extra work would be infringing anything per se). But I'm not a lawyer and I can't find a precedent for this kind of thing.

  5. #5
    No, NewDark's not open source, but it was clearly built on the leaked source, and presumably the reason NewDark isn't open-source and Le Corbeau remains in hiding is because they're afraid of legal repercussions. It's a shame.

  6. #6
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    presumably is the correct word here - apart of the Raven, nobody really knows for sure.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Location: Istanbul, Turkey
    Do you guys think Nightdive Studios will release Dark Engine source code under an open source licence?

  8. #8
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    that is the big question - not a lawyer, but if I understand things correctly, they can only release the SS2 part of the code (and are planning to do so once SS2EE is out as far as I'm aware), as the Dark Engine itself is still in owned by sqeenix. and squeenix' hammer is heavy.

    so having the original SS2 source out legally wouldn't be of much use, but maybe they'll release the SS2EE KEX source - that would, in theory, allow additional SS2 KEX forks. though I have no idea why would anyone want to do that, if we go by SSEESP, things like DX11 and Vulcan will already be in. anyway, making Thief run on the KEX SS2 engine may not be that difficult, so there's that.


    to make it short, sqeenix needs to go bankrupt so the world of Dark could finally be rid of them.

  9. #9
    If sqeenix goes bankrupt, their properties would likely each be sold to the highest bidder, and you'd just be subject to legal action from the new owner(s) instead of the old.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2013
    Just curious - what advantage did you see from getting source code? New Dark (by Le Corbeau) fixed almost everything (from my point of view the only issue still existing is move resolution). It would be nice to have such things like extensive shader support, real time lighting (or even raytracing render if this would be generally available) etc. but such things are really time-consuming to implement... And as we have great
    Dark Mod (they developing engine now - OGL 3.1 support etc) this would be needed only to enhance classic campaign experience. From my point of view Deadly shadows source code would be more appreciated to fix some hard-coded issues (near to impossible to correct, even for such RE badass like snobel) like general physics for example.
    Last edited by szmotsu; 28th May 2020 at 07:01.

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2014
    Location: Istanbul, Turkey
    Quote Originally Posted by szmotsu View Post
    Just curious - what advantage did you see from getting source code? New Dark (by Le Corbeau) fixed almost everything (from my point of view the only issue still existing is move resolution). It would be nice to have such things like extensive shader support, real time lighting (or even raytracing render if this would be generally available) etc. but such things are really time-consuming to implement... And as we have great
    Dark Mod (they developing engine now - OGL 3.1 support etc) this would be needed only to enhance classic campaign experience. From my point of view Deadly shadows source code would be more appreciated to fix some hard-coded issues (near to impossible to correct, even for such RE badass like snobel) like general physics for example.
    Native 64-bit macOS and Linux ports would be nice with OpenGL or Vulkan support. In addition, removing the limits of the engine would help fan mission authors come up with new ideas.

    As for Thief: Deadly Shadows source code, Tim Sweeney once stated that they cannot release Unreal Engine 2 source code.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2013
    @Arcatera yeah, as Windows player i didnt considered other OS, sorry for that. Regarding Thief: Deadly Shadows - engine used is Unreal Warfare branch, rather different than UE2 (more like UE2.5) with custom written render Flesh (which i am most interested in general); at least parts of source code would be helpful.

  13. #13
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    NewDark raised most of the limits of OldDark already, and I imagine if it were possible or easy to raise the big remaining one (cell limit), that Le Corbeau would have done it long ago.

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Arcatera View Post
    Native 64-bit macOS and Linux ports would be nice with OpenGL or Vulkan support.
    I don't know about the engine itself, but the script modules are Windows DLLs, so presumably it would be nearly impossible to port those without rewriting/recompiling them all completely - which would be really awkward considering that there are a lot of custom script modules out there, including non-standard versions released with FMs (and I think the authors of some of those are no longer around.)


    Doesn't NewDark already work perfectly in Wine with Proton?

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