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Thread: Windows 10 has broken Thief Gold for me.

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2019

    Windows 10 has broken Thief Gold for me.

    Hi, I'm new here.

    I've played Thief Gold for 40 hours on windows 7 and now I feel that windows 10 pro has ruined this game.

    It has somehow messed up enemy AI.

    1.Enemies do not detect you at all when bumping at you in the dark.(When you are crouched.)

    2.Somehow I also feel that enemies visibility is also ruined.(They only see you when you are in a 100 percent light area)

    Here is a video of it on Expert difficulty in Mage Tower level.


    Thief Gold, Steam version. Without TFIX.
    I tested TFIX and it didn't fix the game for me.
    I've recently upgraded my RAM from 8 GB to 16 GB. But I don't it has any effect on an old game.

    Anyone knows how to fix it ?

  2. #2
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA, Earth
    Looks completely normal to me...

  3. #3
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    Quote Originally Posted by klatremus View Post
    Looks completely normal to me...
    Really ?

    I thought that :
    -Enemies should easily see you when you aren't in a fully dark area while they look at your direction.

    -Enemies should instantly detect you when bumping at you in the dark.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Kent, UK
    Talking rubbish. On windows 10 and played hundreds if not thousands of hours of thief with no problems at all with AI. The mission you put in your vid is one of the extra ones that was put into TG so maybe it is just a bit buggy. The light gem was not even 50% from what i could see and the AI has to be a bit forgiving in the normal game.

  5. #5
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    seems he got lucky with the first mage, and the second one is ok as well, they definitely don't notice bumps when you are in complete darkness.

  6. #6
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2019
    Location: Poland
    I dont' remember Thief 1 well, but in Thief 2 you're (almost?) guaranteed to get noticed if someone walks onto you even in complete darkness. Weird

    WHY IS YOUR THIEF STRETCHED TO 16:9 SO DISGUSTINGLY AAAAAA IT MAKES ME SAD
    Last edited by Meowdori; 16th Nov 2019 at 07:43. Reason: Typo, ofc

  7. #7
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    Sorry if it's "rubbish" since it kinda made me uncertain about the AI.(Because I thought that Thief AI should behave that way)
    But you guys can see that I played in expert difficulty.
    Quote Originally Posted by Meowdori View Post
    WHY IS YOUR THIEF STRETCHED TO 16:9 SO DISGUSTINGLY AAAAAA IT MAKES ME SAD
    I'm sorry, but the software recorded it this way even though my game was in 4:3 mode non stretched.

  8. #8
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    How in god's name are you imagining that your computer's operating system is influencing a game's AI processing routines?

  9. #9
    Zombified
    Registered: Sep 2004
    from his point of view, that was the only thing that changed (even though it's been just a false memory).

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2019
    Location: Poland
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    How in god's name are you imagining that your computer's operating system is influencing a game's AI processing routines?
    That is not a completely baseless assumption. Most programs call operating system's API functions to perform many operations. It's very unlikely that the AI code does rely on some API function that behaves differently in win10, but in some edge case that could possibly be true.

    If anything, you might want to do a comparison inside a VM running Windows XP, for example (and maybe keep playing there, if it turns out that it works as intended).

  11. #11
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2012
    Location: Sweden.
    Call me crazy but I still maintain a windows 98 machine from Dell upstairs and as I have played Thief Gold to death hundred times in expert mode and with various personal goals to make it harder like ghosting rules for instance.

    Only thing normal in your video is that they really can't notice you if you remain crouched with 0% visibility for most of the time like that in Thief 1, unless there is flickering light nearby that pulses and disrupts your visibility slightly but that's not the case as seen with your video, however I do easily get caught if I were to bracen your AI front view in partial visibility like that but that's on my windows 98 machine, but I would agree that it could have gone slightly bugged, knowing just how old the game is.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2019
    Location: Poland
    Yeah, could be just a single, isolated case of game corrupting itself and glitching, so first of all try to replicate this several times. If it persists, then you indeed have a problem, to which the 2 most obvious solutions would be to either play inside a VM or on a real hardware than can run older version of MS Windows.

    EDIT: Also this is kinda obvious check, but if you're playing on NewDark engine, have you edited any config files? NewDark introduced some user-changeable variables pertaning to AIs behaviour, accessible via cam_ext.cfg, so make sure it's untouched.
    Last edited by Meowdori; 17th Nov 2019 at 06:59. Reason: Typo

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    I've had alerted AI bumping into me when crouched in dark areas before, usually in FM's though, but it does happen

  14. #14
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    It's a config setting that authors can set in their FMs, but it is used very rarely. It was disabled by LGS in the OMs, probably for a good reason.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    Location: Kent, UK
    Just pointless windows 10 bashing for no good reason and a wast of time being post on here in the first place. Had win 7 for ages and it was good, windows 10 is just fine to.

  16. #16
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2019
    Location: Poland
    We're not going on about whether Windows X is better than Windows Y here, but merely trying to determine if the bugs actually occur. The OS is the hypothetical root cause here, and might very well be true.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2018
    Heh, I replayed Tower Mages to recreate situations from video and enemies reacted to me identically. So yeah, that's normal. Sometimes enemies can't see you even if you are very close in front of them. But sometimes they can spot you from far away. It's based on their sensitivity. It's more visible in some harder FMs. Also if you would stood up on fire mage path, he would notice you and attack you. Even though I also have Windows 10 I don't think anything is broken. I think the only difference could be between Olddark and Newdark versions.

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2019
    If you have a disk copy of Thief you could put it on windows 95. Just download Virtual Box - I believe it has CD disk support now. And, Microsoft put Windows 95 on github. You could go real old school. If Ubuntu still had a phone distro you could prolly play Thief on your phone.

  19. #19
    Chakat sex pillow
    Registered: Sep 2006
    Location: not here
    Quote Originally Posted by Meowdori View Post
    That is not a completely baseless assumption. Most programs call operating system's API functions to perform many operations. It's very unlikely that the AI code does rely on some API function that behaves differently in win10, but in some edge case that could possibly be true.

    If anything, you might want to do a comparison inside a VM running Windows XP, for example (and maybe keep playing there, if it turns out that it works as intended).
    If game logic were indeed dependent upon OS API calls, then a lot of games would break at random based on the version of the OS they're running on. However, as most people are sane, and there is no sane reason for AI routines to be coded to depend upon a specific OS API, if you've got it up and running without any other problems, you can safely assume the game is working as intended.
    Last edited by Sulphur; 21st Nov 2019 at 04:46.

  20. #20
    Dóttirin klęšist oft móšur möttli
    Registered: Apr 2015
    @howeird: No need to install an old OS for OldDark. Just assign a single CPU core to the game exe and it will work. I do that all the time for testing in OldDark.

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