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Thread: T2FM - Into the Dark Forest [6 May2020]

  1. #26
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by frobbin hood View Post
    Oh dear! Think I'm going to have to give up on this one. It's just a bewildering maze and I'm fed up of going round in circles.
    I'm afraid the map isn't much help to me. I think I've found the Hammerite Village (even that is a maze with no logical layout) and the Pagan village, but I can't tell the difference between the mine and the caves.
    No sign of the Mage or Cityareas.
    Shame, I can see a lot of work has gone into this.
    Don't be afraid to explore, this is a big mission like the original ones in Thief the Dark Project and Thief 2 The Metal Age. Why in such a hurry? You can play one hour save and resume tomorrow. You played Down in the Bonehoard? That mission has a symbolic map too, The Lost City the same. Many of the original thief missions are build like mazes, Garrett need space. That's not a reason to give up
    The mines are made of coal like the ones in Cragscleft Prison, the caves are made of gray stone Why you said you can't tell the difference? There is no city in this mission.. pay attention to the story. There's no reason to be rude..
    Last edited by Master of Dromed; 10th May 2020 at 11:21.

  2. #27
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    Quote Originally Posted by Master of Dromed View Post
    pay attention to the story. There's no reason to be rude..
    Unless I missed something, I don't see anything rude in frobbin hood's post. Some players are going to struggle with a mission for reasons that don't seem to make sense to you as the author, but you you have to realize that your perspective is not objective because being your creation, you know your mission inside and out. But players don't, and when they have trouble understanding clues, texts or story, don't blame them - it is completely normal for these things to happen, and you can take their comments as feedback on ways to potentially improve how your story, objectives and clues are conveyed through the texts and in other ways, both in future missions and even in the current mission if you choose to do an update.

  3. #28
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    Unless I missed something, I don't see anything rude in frobbin hood's post. Some players are going to struggle with a mission for reasons that don't seem to make sense to you as the author, but you you have to realize that your perspective is not objective because being your creation, you know your mission inside and out. But players don't, and when they have trouble understanding clues, texts or story, don't blame them - it is completely normal for these things to happen, and you can take their comments as feedback on ways to potentially improve how your story, objectives and clues are conveyed through the texts and in other ways, both in future missions and even in the current mission if you choose to do an update.
    No problem, i am open to critique I understand his feeling of frustration, he probably lost a lot of time with this..that happened to me too when i played fan missions. Still i don't understand why i should feel ashamed? That is a pretty harsh word..

  4. #29
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    I'll let him speak for himself, but when "Shame" is used like that it most often means "It's a pity, I would like to have finished it" rather than "You should feel ashamed for having made this".

  5. #30
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    I'll let him speak for himself, but when "Shame" is used like that it most often means "It's a pity, I would like to have finished it" rather than "You should feel ashamed for having made this".
    Then it's my bad. Since i'm not an english speaker my english is not very good. I misunderstood his words.

  6. #31
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    Those of you who posted something I had to delete, we're not going down that road here. Feel free to discuss the matter privately if you wish.

  7. #32
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2017
    Location: France
    Very good release, much improvement bro keep it up
    Last edited by Psych0sis; 10th May 2020 at 17:04.

  8. #33
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Cragscleft, Bedfordshire, Eng.
    Apologies Master of Dromed. I didn't mean to cause offence. As Yandros said, I meant 'It's a pity'. You should be proud of yourself for managing to produce this.
    I am the first to admit I don't have the know-how to build missions, or the time to learn, but I still believe I should be able to criticise - positive or negative.
    I realise you can't please everybody - it's just that this one is not my favourite type of mission.

  9. #34
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: France, Paris
    I like big mission but I can't play your FM, I don't know what cause this but I have constant fps drops, it alernate between 100fps and 15fps twice per second, it's just unplayable. Is there a constant projectile emitter somewhere in the mission ? I know this kind of stuff can really slow down the dark engine...

  10. #35
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Apiai View Post
    I like big mission but I can't play your FM, I don't know what cause this but I have constant fps drops, it alernate between 100fps and 15fps twice per second, it's just unplayable. Is there a constant projectile emitter somewhere in the mission ? I know this kind of stuff can really slow down the dark engine...
    That's so strange! No one reported such an issue so far.. All the people who played reported it plays just fine. I have a very stable fps when i play it through New Dark. Even in Old Dark it plays just fine. Really don't know why this happens on your Thief install.. there's no projectile emitter in this mission. Maybe is something related to your Thief install?

  11. #36
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: France, Paris
    I have found the solution :

    The room where you've stored all projectiles (HammerSpell, MageVineShot, FireMageBolt, etc...) is causing the issue. You have put all the projectile objects on each other, so I've tried to move all the objects to space them from each other and now it's ok, I don't have any fps issues.


    I guess when projectile objects are too close to each other, there are some kind of interactions between them that dark engine need to calculate. And maybe its related to hardware, OS, or Thief Install, because from now I'm the only one to have this bug.

  12. #37
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Apiai View Post
    I have found the solution :

    The room where you've stored all projectiles (HammerSpell, MageVineShot, FireMageBolt, etc...) is causing the issue. You have put all the projectile objects on each other, so I've tried to move all the objects to space them from each other and now it's ok, I don't have any fps issues.


    I guess when projectile objects are too close to each other, there are some kind of interactions between them that dark engine need to calculate. And maybe its related to hardware, OS, or Thief Install, because from now I'm the only one to have this bug.
    Just WOOW!!! You seem to be a more experienced dromeder than i am Never heard about this until now. I am glad you can play it now. In the future update i will have to fix this. It's not me but dromed who placed all that objects there(in the 0 0 0 coordinates) so i taught that is fine, but it wasn't Thank you for your help! And yes no one reported this before
    Last edited by Master of Dromed; 12th May 2020 at 07:29.

  13. #38
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    If those are AI projectiles and the like which Dark places there, you can't move them as they are often spawned at runtime. It looks like, however, that you have an air brush around 0,0,0 and that may be causing the engine to calculate all of the collisions between them constantly. You might try removing the airbrush and letting 0,0,0 be in solid, which is just fine and might prevent Dark from trying to make those collision calculations. This is all mostly speculation on my part, though, although I do not generally in my missions put an airbrush around the origin.

  14. #39
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    If those are AI projectiles and the like which Dark places there, you can't move them as they are often spawned at runtime. It looks like, however, that you have an air brush around 0,0,0 and that may be causing the engine to calculate all of the collisions between them constantly. You might try removing the airbrush and letting 0,0,0 be in solid, which is just fine and might prevent Dark from trying to make those collision calculations. This is all mostly speculation on my part, though, although I do not generally in my missions put an airbrush around the origin.
    Thank you for you help Yandros! I will do that in the next update

  15. #40
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    Sure, but like I said I am merely speculating - I would definitely ask Apiai to test with that change and see if it helps before you commit to doing it.

  16. #41
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros View Post
    Sure, but like I said I am merely speculating - I would definitely ask Apiai to test with that change and see if it helps before you commit to doing it.
    That air brush surrounded by a room brush at the 0 0 0 coordinates was placed there by the people who built Dromed Deluxe since i used the file basemis.mis to build my mission. Don't know if they had a reason for doing that.

  17. #42
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: France, Paris
    I've deleted the air brush and it works, no more fps drops. Then I've created a room brush again, put starting point in it, and I've seen lots of green glowing particles moving and lots of bugbeast flies spawning and moving. So Yandros is right, room brush make dark engine calculate all those particles and can cause fps drops on low computers.



    I've finished the mission, I liked it, it feels like playing some original mission, lots of different places to explore and different themes like mines, forest, caves, hammerites are well mixed. Bravo !
    Last edited by Apiai; 14th May 2020 at 04:43.

  18. #43
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Apiai View Post
    I've deleted the room brush and it works, no more fps drops. Then I've created a room brush again, put starting point in it, and I've seen lots of green glowing particles moving and lots of bugbeast flies spawning and moving. So Yandros is right, room brush make dark engine calculate all those particles and can cause fps drops on low computers.

    I've finished the mission, I liked it, it feels like playing some original mission, lots of different places to explore and different themes like mines, forest, caves, hammerites are well mixed. Bravo !
    Thank you for your words Apiai! This mission was built by the standard of the original missions in Thief Gold. It's always good to follow the greats i think.
    So you said not the air brush is the problem but the room brush. I will delete the room brush in my next update. Thank you for your help!
    Last edited by Master of Dromed; 13th May 2020 at 19:00.

  19. #44
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2006
    Location: France, Paris
    Just to be clear : I've deleted the room with the wood texture, so I think you're right, it is the air brush. I didn't deleted the other room (StartRoom #30). (sorry I'm not experienced dromeder like you said )
    Last edited by Apiai; 14th May 2020 at 04:43.

  20. #45
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by Apiai View Post
    Just to be clear : I've deleted the room with the wood texture, so I think you're right, it is the air brush. I didn't deleted the other room (StartRoom #30). (sorry I'm not experienced dromeder like you said )
    Oh, so i misunderstood You deleted the air brush. Room brushes are the purple ones that surround the air brushes. They are used for sound propagation. Thank you again

  21. #46
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2006
    Location: The BoneHoard

    Need help finding prayer book

    Spoil me, please!! I have all my other objectives except I can't find the prayer book. Thanks!

  22. #47
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Deep in the Heart of Texas!
    This is a very good second mission!! I enjoyed exploring every inch of it, I am impressed by it!
    Thank you for this gem.
    pwl

  23. #48
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2001
    Quote Originally Posted by HauntHunter View Post
    Spoil me, please!! I have all my other objectives except I can't find the prayer book. Thanks!
    There's a readable in a bedroom up high (shortly after you enter the mines) that strongly hints at its location.

    The prayer book in the lowest level of the mines, in a flooded area, below the water. Look for a (strangely) still-lit lantern; the book is next to it. This is before you enter the Hammer buildings by water, or the pagan areas.

    - prjames

  24. #49
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2020
    Location: Bucharest
    Quote Originally Posted by HauntHunter View Post
    Spoil me, please!! I have all my other objectives except I can't find the prayer book. Thanks!
    The prayer book is in the lower level of the mines, in the inundated portion. It's under water. You have to do some swimming

    For pwl: Thank you for your appreciation pwl! I'm glad you had a nice experience with this one!
    Last edited by Master of Dromed; 16th May 2020 at 05:18.

  25. #50

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