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Thread: T2 FM: The Mask of Agamemnon by Yandros (Updated to v1.1, 21 Nov 2016)

  1. #101
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Angelot View Post
    Is it possible to put a savegame after the jump, from some part in the web to be able to download it?
    Check your PMs.

  2. #102
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    I can't help wondering if this jump differs slightly on different systems. Maybe that's just wishful thinking as I didn't very well. But someone said that
    spoiler:
    you should land on the first block and only need to mantle if you fall a bit short. I NEVER once did that in many tries and was lucky if I managed to get near enough to mantle. Judging the edge of the balcony accurately seems just guesswork without any visible reference. If one could see the edge while running then one could keep adjusting to find the best spot to hit the jump key

  3. #103
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    I found it troublesome to mantle onto that pillar - I think the best way to do it is to jump far enough that you land on the pillar, rather than having to mantle.

  4. #104
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    spoiler:
    But how. I would have thought everyone who makes that jump attempts to jump the max distance they can. Nobody would intentionally make a shorter jump unless they found themselves overshooting. I tried always for the max jump many times and at best I barely got close enough to mantle let alone land on top. The answer would be to jump at the very last moment of the run just before reaching the edge. But how to judge so accurately without being able to see it, with no precise visual reference? Perhaps just practice or an instinctive skill, which some of us do not have? Or is there a secret to it? If I could just see a point on the ground on the balcony as I run I could adjust and probably get it in 2 or 3 or 4 tries

  5. #105
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Texas
    Ab-so-lute-ly - FAN-FRIKKIN-TASTIC LEVEL!!!!

    What a great treat to fans of TR!

    Please, please, please, PLEASE tell me you are going to do more Tomb Raider inspired levels!

    I would love to see some Tibet stuff - some London stuff - and some Tower Block stuff (from TR5). I know those are tall orders - but I would just love it!

    Thanks so much for putting so much work into this!

    Any way of getting the great audio of the Lara "scream" when she falls?

  6. #106
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    Oh, right, you end up hitting the very edge of the pillar and bouncing off, and you can't mantle?
    Try jumping a little earlier, so you're low enough by the time you hit the pillar so that you can mantle on it.

  7. #107
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Location: Genoa, Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by ffox View Post
    Check your PMs.
    Thanks you very much ffox!

  8. #108
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    Big central pillar room.
    spoiler:
    Must admit I never thought of that. I'll give it a try but I'm doubtful as I did fall short many a time not even reaching even a mantle while trying for the max. I still suspect it is the accuracy of hitting a chosen jump point that is the problem - whether one chooses the furthest edge of the balcony or one yard inside. I think even if there were a chalk line on the ground I would not know the moment I pass it because I can't see it while running and looking forward any more than I can see the edge. And it does not address the difficulty of sideways alignment where one has to hit a window of possibly as small as one degree else risk sliding off left or right. But I'll give it a try. Might be just the thing that does work.

    I should add a reminder that I have finished this mission but it took me a lot of attempts (described previously) and I almost gave up, as others have, at this jump. I am just hoping to find a principle or method that can be applied to any such jump not just for me but all those who seem to have the same problem.

    I do like the concept of this kind of jump even if it took 3 or 4 attempts (each one taking hits else quickloading remember) but 20 plus efforts and the fun starts to wain.

  9. #109
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    Step by step method for big pillar jump

    I finally found a method that now works for me almost every time. The whole problem I now think has been mainly one of alignment. I posted before that I think in other missions I have unconciously used the light gem as a centre reference. In Agamemnon I may have unconsciously been relating to the right side of the power bar which even when full is nowhere near the centre line. Other players must have some in-built judgement many of us lack!

    This is what I did...
    spoiler:
    . Any reasonable point you can align will do but this is where I did it.
    . On the balcony go back to the area where the torches are and the side grids
    . Move forward to just before the line on the floor where the arch is.
    . Looking down move back/forward until it is close to the bottom of the screen
    . ROTATE left/right till the line is as squarely aligned with the screen bottom as you can.
    . MOVE left/right looking at the side structures to get yourself as central as you can judge.
    . Look straight ahead.
    . IGNORE looking at the pillar at all.
    . Light a flare.
    . Using flare & side walls as reference check you are as square to the balcony as you can.
    . Quicksave. It's worth using one flare.
    . Run then press the jump key as close to the edge as you can.
    . Keep pressing the jump key until you are on top of the pillar else failed.
    . Quickload and repeat as needed.
    . You need only concentrate on one thing: WHEN to jump.
    . Quicksave on top of the pillar.
    . Sorry, you're on your own for the next jump but not so hard as the first!

  10. #110
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: 0x0x0
    Just played this ...500 short on loot and short a secret.

    I loved the triple jump! Can we get a sextuple jump in the next one! I think a lot of people have trouble because they don't realise just where Garrett's (Lara's) feet are in relation to the solid underneath. If you can see any floor it's still not time to jump!

    Anyhoo...I had a blast with this one. I've never played TR. Russ, if you need me to voice Lara for the next one, just let me know.


    EDIT...
    spoiler:
    RE The Torc of Hephaestus...another way to solve....fall past door and frob....climb all the way back up...fall past and grab the Torc. I always seem to do things the hard way!
    Last edited by SlyFoxx; 2nd Jan 2007 at 16:42.

  11. #111
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    The Torc? I just climbed down the ladder from above, hung on at the very lowest point, and grabbed the Torc through the door...

  12. #112
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Location: Studio

    Yandros

    Your mission is fantastic !!!
    This is wonder of FM's

  13. #113
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach

    On a TR note...

    Wow! My son got TR: Legend for 360 for Xmas, and we just fired it up tonight. The graphics blow me away (the water is the best I've ever seen, and Lara's nice to look at too!), and the gameplay so far is classic TR. I'm really looking forward to playing through it!

  14. #114
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Big pillar jump - go down to the main room and lean forwards at the same time as running to climb up the slanted pillar then mantle at the top and jump on to the final platform

  15. #115
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    I reallly don't understand why people are struggling with that jump. It is not difficult period. I can only assume that people are not holding down the jump key.

  16. #116
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    I've never had any problems either and wonder why others struggle so much with jump-mantles, but they definitely do. Makes me wonder about ever finishing other TR missions (like St. Francis' Folly) which would probably require a lot more mantling than this one... it would instantly alienate some portion of the players here I suppose.

  17. #117
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Dude
    I really don't understand why people are struggling with that jump. It is not difficult period.
    Why is it so hard to believe that some people have genuine difficulty with jumps and mantles?

    I have problems because my reactions have atrophied with old age, but then I sometimes have problems getting up from a sofa these days!

    On the other hand, I usually play a round of golf in about 80 shots. It is not difficult for me, period. But I can understand how some people manage to take more than 100.

    Quote Originally Posted by Yandros
    Makes me wonder about ever finishing other TR missions (like St. Francis' Folly) which would probably require a lot more mantling than this one.
    The answer is in your own hands - make the tricky jumps and mantles a bit easier so everyone can do them. I'll willingly test them for you.

  18. #118
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    Quote Originally Posted by ffox View Post
    On the other hand, I usually play a round of golf in about 80 shots. It is not difficult for me, period. But I can understand how some people manage to take more than 200.
    Corrected.

    Quote Originally Posted by ffox View Post
    The answer is in your own hands - make the tricky jumps and mantles a bit easier so everyone can do them. I'll willingly test them for you.
    That's the thing. I thought the jumping in this mission was a piece of cake until you guys started testing it!

  19. #119
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2001
    Location: Ireland
    You should just be glad you didn't play the first version of The Temple of the Tides, before I made the jumps easier!

    (Yes, those nightmarishly hard jumps people complained about had already been made easier...)

  20. #120
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2006
    Location: Germany
    @Yandros
    Maybe you could add a workaround in your next TR-FM. Let those guys and gals, that cannot do the jump, solve a riddle or find a tiny switch instead to open another passage to bypass the jump.

    Just an idea.

  21. #121
    Desperately Dodgy Moderator
    Registered: Nov 2001
    Location: Dragonsreach
    And a good one! Thanks for the suggestion.

  22. #122
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: UK
    Speed potion on the easier difficulty levels? Not sure if it would help but I would expect it would. In any event I think the jump is justified in a Lara Croft mission. Any player ought to know what to expect.

    About the query about the jump key I can confirm absolutely it is nothing to do with that at least in my case. I am completely familiar with the running mantle since the torc area in T1's Haunted Cathedral I think it was. I seem to recall there is a window there you can't get back out of that area without the running mantle.

    I certainly held down the jump key. No, as I posted earlier, it is mainly one of alignment left and right and jumping too early or too late because one cannot see the edge as you near it. This is a judgement some find easier than others.

    What I have NEVER heard of in all these years and amazingly never thought to try (well not so amazing I guess) is leaning forward while running someone posted here recently! I've leant forward while standing or crouching to look down over an edge. Never occurred to me to lean while running.

    Anyway, following that earlier post here about leaning forward while running and mantling from the ground up I tried this on a gap jump in my own mission and it seemed easier. I only tried two or three times but yes - got it every time. But the gap in my mission is not so wide as this. Not tried it yet from Yandros' balcony but I think it would help to see the edge. Maybe you experienced jumpers use this all the time without thinking to mention it?

  23. #123
    Member
    Registered: Feb 2002
    Location: Go is to the fountain.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fidcal View Post
    No, as I posted earlier, it is mainly one of alignment left and right and jumping too early or too late because one cannot see the edge as you near it. This is a judgement some find easier than others.
    True, I find it very easy to approximate the centre of my screen. If you're having that much trouble, maybe you should make a poor man's crosshair with a red marker and a piece of tape?
    As for not seeing the edge as you near it, are you telling me that you don't know how to tilt the camera? Not that looking straight at the edge would help getting the direction right. I usually look at the place I want to go, in this case the top of the pillar, and even jumping just before the edge disappears from view is enough to mantle the pillar.


    Quote Originally Posted by Fidcal View Post
    Maybe you experienced jumpers use [leaning] all the time without thinking to mention it?
    I've never even thought of it.

  24. #124
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2003
    Location: Cambridgeshire UK
    It might be my post about leaning forward. If so, it wasn't to assist in a jump but to help get a grip on those two awkwardly positioned ladders near the red lever.

    I never had any problem with the jump over to the upright pillar. My initial mistake in that area was trying to climb up the sloping one.

    The bits that did cause me trouble were those two ladders and the jump/mantle up to the secret in the passage NW of the waterfall. I still find that one almost impossible and now resort to elevatoring with timed grenades.

  25. #125
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    didn't have any problem with the jump, just didn't even think about it until I saw the posts

    I've never managed to do the elevatoring thing, I'm not very good at box stacking either

    have to say it was a fun mission and a change from my normal thiefy activities

    still prefer being garrett tho

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