Reply With QuoteGoggles really needs a completely new model...
A good point that was raised recently was why does he even have those external 'goggles' when his cyber-rig implant is wired straight into his brain?
-There's new stuff at the end-
-Another new version as of the 29-3-08. Check the end of the thread-
- new CS1 demo as of 8-6-10-
Now, I've said a few things about getting new stuff made for SS2 and getting involved in the various fan update projects over the years. But I've done pretty much zip (certainly never finished anything). So just in case some folks remember this fact I thought I'd better do a little proof of concept before anything else.
http://members.iinet.net.au/~ragtag/...01_2%20snd.zip
This 6mb file is a demo remake of the first 50-odd seconds of CS2.avi at 640x480.
Some small apologies for it; its still WIP and open for comment, there's a few iffy details here and there, my codec-fu is weak, the end bit is dodgy (see location troubles below)
But anyway here's the plan: remake as far as practicable all the System Shock 2 cutscenes at higher resolution and incorporating Rebirth models and Shtup textures.
As you can see, at the moment I'm attempting the easiest one. After embarking on this I realised pretty quickly where my relative strengths lie and for the in-game elements I really need an art department. What would probably take me months of dromed learnin' would take many around here no time at all.
The scenes on the video screens in cs2 don't seem to be anywhere actually in the game (damned if I could find them anyway), so we can debate whether or not rebuilding those scenes exactly is better or worse. And, of course, the scripting is well beyond my capabilities.
I have started adapting the goggles skin to the male ghost Rebirth model (the only one I could find not pulling a face). Looks like this at the present;
but the model might not be the ideal choice.
So, any interest in this? Questions? comments? etc? fire away
Last edited by Muzman; 7th Jun 2010 at 14:07. Reason: new stuff
Goggles really needs a completely new model...
A good point that was raised recently was why does he even have those external 'goggles' when his cyber-rig implant is wired straight into his brain?
Remaking him as a rebirth model for the cutscene is not a good idea as that neither fits the current Goggles nor any future model.
The view of the VB and shuttle is quite cool.
cheers, that's good, heh.
The goal here isn't to reinvent the designs of the game but remake the same at a higher level of detail. Fixing the game's percieved problems might be all the rage around here at the moment, but really bringing the cutscenes inline with the defacto standard updates (namely Rebirth and SHTUP) is all I really care about and is going to provide the best update for the widest number of players.
Matching a present or future Goggles model is really only important for multiplayer and even then the signature Goggles look is going to persist (and if it doesn't its of no relevance to this project). That model from Rebirth should be serviceable, except that its hands might be a little problematic in some of the animations and its skin is only half the detail of the other rebirth humans (it still being mirrored like the originals and not having its own head skin). This is what I mean by it being less than ideal. Since no new Goggles model project seems to be moving along (or hasn't been heard from in years) and if no better option exists in the existing rebirth set that I might have missed, that model will probably do the trick. A skilled dromeder or two to help construct/recycle the in game scenes so that they can be 'shot' and this can move ahead, as far as I'm concerned anyway.
Feels like it becomes a high detail vs quality thing, since even though the old ones are low resolution and lowpolygonal, they still have a consistant quality going on.
There exists a new goggles model that is as close to perfect as we're ever going to get and its high res (but the rigging is incomplete). Ajare made it but since he's shifted his attention to other things lately I'm not going to push it since its his property. You might want to contact him though.
That's very nice of you, RocketMan.However, it was one of the first character models I made, and isn't actually all that great. You are right though, I have forsaken Dark Engine modelling in part due to the soul-devouring monster known as meshbld.
Last edited by Ajare; 9th Mar 2007 at 14:13.
Great work with the Cutscene preview Muzman, I enjoyed it and think its a great idea you've got going! I like the Goggles model too! I hope to see more of this project soon!
Thanks a bunch. I reckon it'll come off sooner or later
Not sure what you mean. The human models have unfortunate noseless fish heads that were considered rather poor by 1999 standards. They're jarringly underdetailed. I don't think updating them would necessarily overshadow the environments, if that's what you mean.Originally Posted by Eldron
they were made the best they could be made with those days standards, and polycounts, (although low), so a modern remake would require not only a new good model, but also a new well-made texture,
otherwise it'll end up worse, but with more polygons.
I reckon its about the same, but with more polygons to define facial form (which would improve profile shots and others no end). A higher res skin would of course be nice, but I don't plan on using any tighter closeups than what's already in the original videos.
I should add that Ajare or anyone is of course welcome to jump in and adjust a rebirth model for the job, or suggest a new one
I absolutely adore this model by Mercurius! I whis I could help him with his issuesThis model screams to be completed!
The thread where the pic is from.
Unfortunately Mercurius never released anything. Though everyone was practically screaming at him to release whatever he had so others could finish his work. And the moral of the story is: No one likes a selfish clown. Not even when you're quite good at what you're doing.
Not true. The people at Irrational in charge of modeling the game's AIs were given a specific polygon budget which turned out to be significantly lowballed. Those models were criticized as blocky from the day the game was released. Thief 2's AIs were given a much more sensible polygon budget.
Why are polygon budgets given if the Dark engine supported higher polygon counts without big performance decrease?
Because they miscalculated it. Nobody's perfect.
<s>Am I the only one who's downloaded that thing three times and still can't get WinZip/rar/whatever to extract it?</s>
Typical. I ask about it and now it works... ¬¬
Nice job
No.
I'll rephrase that., What I ment was that they were given a specific polycount and texturesize to work after and made the best they could from that.
If cutscenes are to be remade, I will applaud the effort, but it becomes a downgrade if they aren't made according to some artistic quality standard.
Well, I've given you mine. Make of it what you will.
(cheers raph. what's wrong with "averroes" anyway?)
To make him look more badass.
That's where the HUD is projected
That's where the porn is projected.
With direct access to the brain one might be able to "project" the HUD without any such device. But with a bit of thinking I'm sure we can come up with reasons why he needs the goggles. (Maybe they replaced/augmented his eyes with camera lenses?)
In any case that's the way to go because Goggles wouldn't be Goggles without them. Not just because of the name. In real life he could look like your average Joe, it might even be preferable - but in a movie or game you want to show someone was changed that dramatically and has gained these extraordinary skills.
So the only way to drop the goggles would be if we could show that in another way, eg by replacing his cap with a brain-access device (which should be easily identifiable as such). That would be straying quite far from the original too but at least it would serve the same purpose why the designers put the goggles there in the first place.
As hinted at, maybe the goggles are just the easiest way to display a HUD to the implantee. And by augmenting/replacing the eyes, other options could be added later (zoom vision, infra red vision, various filters, protection from flash bombs) - but in the game none of those were necessary, so SHODAN didn't waste nanites on implementing them. Whereas a similar implant used by the military on a colony might have those features installed.
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