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Thread: how did Brother Murus die?

  1. #1
    alexfung
    Guest

    how did Brother Murus die?

    From RTC, it is evident that Brother Murus did not die a natural death. Who killed him, and why? Also, what did Brother Martello and Renault died of? They are the only two dead bodies that has not disintegrated (nor become Hammer Haunts). What is so strange about them?

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  2. #2
    belboz
    Guest

    He fell down the stairs.

  3. #3
    PCommish
    Guest

    That's a good question. Why didn't they become zombies or apparition? I remember reading that Hammerites would die in battle and then turn on the living, but why not these 3? Maybe they knew a secret that the others didn't.

    ------------------
    Clan Foofie Senior Radiologist

  4. #4
    alexfung
    Guest

    Belboz: please either be serious or leave this thread.

    PCommish: where did you read about that? Is it a trusted source? What did it base on?

    I don't think Hammerite dead in battle is related to Haunts. I heard another source saying Haunts are evil spirits taking over the body of a Hammerite soldier.

    In any case, the strange thing is that the reason of his death is kept a secret. Only one (or a few) person knows how he really died.

  5. #5
    Sushi
    Guest

    >>Poor Murus. After all this years he still fights me; i'm afraid he went mad<< the Eye (free translated from german) I can't remember if this is in the game actually, but I found it as soundfile in the snd.crf file. (Eye07.wav)

    I don't know about the other both, but according to that quote, I see two possibilities why Murus was not converted by the Eye:
    1.) He was too strong against the Eye in his mind and knew about its power.
    2.) The Eye can't convert crazy or mad people 'cause their minds are either too strong or too weak.

    Sushi
    btw: that voice of the Eye is one of the coolest voices ever in a PC game (together with Walton Simons from Deus Ex)

  6. #6
    PCommish
    Guest

    I believe that it is written on a parchment somewhere in that level, Alexfung. It was only in regards to that battle against the undead though, not in general.

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    Clan Foofie Senior Radiologist

  7. #7
    Ethne
    Guest

    Actually, the way I understood it, Murus died an untimely death before the Zombies overtook the Cathedral, but I don't remember how he died. I do remember finding the scrolls mentioning that they never had a chance to give him a proper burial, and one of his friends (that you had to bury) was rather upset about it. My guess is that they were untouched due to thier purity of heart, and the strength of their convictions. JMHO

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  8. #8
    The_Servant
    Guest

    Nobody really knows how he died,but we do know the rest.Something went wrong with his burial;and that's why he needed garrett to put his soul to rest.He probably wasn't "converted" because his spirit was to strong.


  9. #9
    Oliver Gregory
    Guest

    I know most of it but what events actually transpired when the old quarter was destroyed? I know that the city council had workers building the wall and some were lost to the zombies, but how did the events actually start? I ain't sure. And why were the zombies localised within that part of the city? I guess that there were lots in that area undergroung etc. or that they were created. Probably the first suggestion

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  10. #10
    WolfTronix
    Guest

    Here is the story from what I ahve gathered. First of all the eye is PURE evil. The hammerites brought it to the cathedral. It kept flying up onto the pedestal every morning. The eye caused the bringing of the evil. Zombies arose, evil spirits possessed the bodies of the dead. The hammers were in teh cathedral at the time. They would fight off the undead but everytime one of them was killed he rose again as a haunt. The three strongest souls (murus renault martello) were not transformed upon their death. Instead they struggled against the eyes power however their sloppy or lack of burial prevented them from progressing to the builders paradise. When all hell breaks lose in the old quarter the city is borded up and the keepers seal the cathedral. Along comes Garrett and teh rest is history.

  11. #11
    Diceman
    Guest

    We don't know exactly what happened to cause the Old Quarter to be walled off. We do know alot, however.

    Presumably, the Eye created the undead, which overran the cathedral. The cathedral was sealed off with the help of the Keepers, but the undead got out (or the Eye could extend its powers beyond the Cathedral) and undead started to overrun the City. At this point, the area of the City around the cathedral was walled off and the undead contained within.

    Why the Eye acted when it did (as opposed to attacking sooner or later) is not known. It is also not known exactly how Murus died and why his spirit remained around the cathedral. Since Murus' stuff was on top of the shed behind St. Tenor's, it's possible that he fell off of the shed roof and broke his neck. The fact that he is already buried indicates that he died before the undead overtook the cathedral. (like PCommish, I remember reading that guys who were killed by the undead became undead themselves. My suspicions are that this was a special circumstance of this battle: the Eye was adding to its forces as soon as new corpses became available.) The two guys that you bury (Renault and Marcello or something like that) were both found in locked rooms in remote parts of the cathedral. They probably starved to death rather than be killed by the undead. I agree that their bodies were way too fresh-looking, but the guys at TTLG probably didn't want to make custom skins for them.

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  12. #12
    alexfung
    Guest

    PCommish, Diceman. If the rise of Hammer Haunts is from the scroll of RTC, I think you are referring to this: "Our own fallen
    brethren rise from death and turn on us, cold light aflame in their eyes.". However, it is not worded that the "rise" is a direct result of the battle.

    Yes it seems generally agreed that Hammer Haunts are formerly Hammerite guards, but still the condition for the transformation is unsure.

    Ethne, Murus probably died before Zombies take over, as you said, because the scrolls about his death showed no worries about undeads.

    Author Topic: how did Brother Murus die?
    alexfung
    Member
    Posts: 38
    Registered: Mar 2000
    posted February 26, 2001 06:23 AM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    From RTC, it is evident that Brother Murus did not die a natural death. Who killed him, and why? Also, what did Brother Martello and Renault died of? They are the only two dead bodies that has not disintegrated (nor become Hammer Haunts). What is so strange about them?
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    belboz
    Member
    Posts: 1032
    Registered: Oct 1999
    posted February 26, 2001 07:27 AM
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    He fell down the stairs.
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    PCommish
    Member
    Posts: 263
    Registered: Sep 2000
    posted February 26, 2001 08:43 AM
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    That's a good question. Why didn't they become zombies or apparition? I remember reading that Hammerites would die in battle and then turn on the living, but why not these 3? Maybe they knew a secret that the others didn't.
    ------------------
    Clan Foofie Senior Radiologist

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    alexfung
    Member
    Posts: 38
    Registered: Mar 2000
    posted February 26, 2001 09:46 AM
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    Belboz: please either be serious or leave this thread.
    PCommish: where did you read about that? Is it a trusted source? What did it base on?

    I don't think Hammerite dead in battle is related to Haunts. I heard another source saying Haunts are evil spirits taking over the body of a Hammerite soldier.

    In any case, the strange thing is that the reason of his death is kept a secret. Only one (or a few) person knows how he really died.


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    Sushi
    New Member
    Posts: 8
    Registered: Nov 2000
    posted February 26, 2001 10:16 AM
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    >>Poor Murus. After all this years he still fights me; i'm afraid he went mad<< the Eye (free translated from german) I can't remember if this is in the game actually, but I found it as soundfile in the snd.crf file. (Eye07.wav)
    I don't know about the other both, but according to that quote, I see two possibilities why Murus was not converted by the Eye:
    1.) He was too strong against the Eye in his mind and knew about its power.
    2.) The Eye can't convert crazy or mad people 'cause their minds are either too strong or too weak.

    Sushi
    btw: that voice of the Eye is one of the coolest voices ever in a PC game (together with Walton Simons from Deus Ex)

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    PCommish
    Member
    Posts: 263
    Registered: Sep 2000
    posted February 26, 2001 11:57 AM
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    I believe that it is written on a parchment somewhere in that level, Alexfung. It was only in regards to that battle against the undead though, not in general.
    ------------------
    Clan Foofie Senior Radiologist

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    Ethne
    Member
    Posts: 111
    Registered: Feb 2001
    posted February 26, 2001 01:49 PM
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    Actually, the way I understood it, Murus died an untimely death before the Zombies overtook the Cathedral, but I don't remember how he died. I do remember finding the scrolls mentioning that they never had a chance to give him a proper burial, and one of his friends (that you had to bury) was rather upset about it. My guess is that they were untouched due to thier purity of heart, and the strength of their convictions. JMHO
    ------------------
    Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup.

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    The_Servant
    New Member
    Posts: 28
    Registered: Dec 2000
    posted February 26, 2001 01:55 PM
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    Nobody really knows how he died,but we do know the rest.Something went wrong with his burial;and that's why he needed garrett to put his soul to rest.He probably wasn't "converted" because his spirit was to strong.

    Oliver Gregory asked a great question. How did the event started? I agree with the Diceman sequence of events, that Keepers helped the Hammerites to seal the Cathedral before the the Old Quarter is walled off.

    Many of you think that the Eye created the undead. I think it is reasonable, but without proof. How would we account for the Zombies in the Mines and the Bonehoard?

    It was never said of the original of the Eye. However, Trickster seems to know more about it than anybody else, so it might have come from his world.

    Diceman, I also agree with you that Martello and Renault probably were not killed by the undead. However, I think Murus died a vigorous death, perhaps murder, such as by a spy or another pawn of Trickster. The priests did not consecrate his grave not because of lack of time, but that they did not know that it was necessary. The secrets about what he died of was only known to a few, including the writer of a scroll in St Yora's. He didn't ask the priest to consecrate the tomb because he feared the priests would ask him why. That shows that not all tombs are consecrated, and it is done only when needed. Murus has the need, but the priests didn't know it. What could have been the reason? I don't think the writer would have been afraid to tell the priests if Murus died of old age, sickness or accident.

  13. #13
    -=V=-
    Guest

    Apparently he asked a lot of people to do a load of bloody pointless quests for him, then one day ..one of them said no

  14. #14
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    Sorry for the ancient thread-necro, but instead of making a new thread, I figured keep it all in the same place, right? Also if you Google "how did brother Murus die" this thread is one of the top results.


    I think I've discovered how Brother Murus died. Brother Murus died when he and his brothers attempted to secretly use and activate the Eye.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Haunted Cathedral Intro Video
    And he did say, "Shall we not use this power, as our enemies used it unto us?' Do we not carve their wild forests into our beams and boards? Do we not tame their raging streams to carry our boats?" And in their youth and foolishness did his brother's say, "Yes, Let us."
    This suggests that some of the Hammerites attempted to use the eye. It may even be Brother Murus uttering those words.


    Quote Originally Posted by A journal in the Dorms
    I am wracked with the agony of guilt. The Master Builder cannot spare the cursed coward that I have become. If only I could bring myself to confess what I know about the death of Brother Murus. His soul will never rest unless we perform the Ritual of Consecration upon his grave. But the priests will surely ask why such a thing need be done, and I am too weak a builder's servant to face their wrath.
    This fellow knew a secret about Murus' death, and it seemed to involve a great sin - I suspect it was attempting to use and activate the Eye. Consecration means to be make holy, sacred, or purified. If Brother Murus attempted to use the eye, and established a kind of link with it, it would have had a spiritual impact on his soul. His spirit would have needed to be purified.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Eye (Seemingly unused voice line)
    "Poor Murus, still struggling against me all these years. He's gone quite mad I fear."
    If Murus activated the eye, it could also explain why he alone survived as a sentient spirit, and not a mindless undead; he gained a special link to the eye, or its power.


    Brother Murus did not die as part of the undead rising. He died some time before then.
    Quote Originally Posted by Another readable
    A novice passing the cemetery yestereve said he saw a strange glowing figure walking therein, but upon investigating found that the apparition had vanished. Those who heard his story laughed and blamed his vision on an excess of ale, but I am not so quick to dismiss it. I remember the burial of our beloved Brother Murus last week and the feeling that something was wrong. I shan't relate the story to Brother Martello, since he was much attached to Brother Murus, and mourns his loss still.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brother Murus
    "I need to find a candle I used when I was still alive. The last time I remember using a candle is... the night of my death. I was in the workyard where the well is. My personal possessions were hidden... but I think the candle is back there still."
    Brother Murus was out late at night in the workyard (perhaps so the high priests wouldn't catch them), using a candle to see. He met up with his brothers and they were going to try to activate the Eye - as suggested by the intro text. When they attempted it, the Eye unleashed it's unholy power, and in doing so, killed brother Murus. When they realized Murus was dead, his foolish and scared brothers (because this was NOT sanctioned by the high priest, or anyone else in authority) hid his possessions, made it look like an accident and fled the scene.


    Some time after activating the Eye, it began to appear above the Altar and use it's evil power on the cathedral, its inhabitants and the surrounding quarter and raised the dead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Another Readable
    Though these be perhaps the final moments of our beloved cathedral and mine mortal life, I shall faithfully chronicle to the end. A great evil magic hath befallen us, and we battle with demon-kind on all sides. Our own fallen brethren rise from death and turn on us, cold light aflame in their eyes. Our mighty doors availed us naught, for the assault was from within. Soon I shall be found and slain, like the others. May The Builder save our souls.
    This seems to fit all the bits and pieces laid out by LGS. They were such great masters of mystery. They never explain it all. They only give you hints and never over-explain, or fully explain anything. They make you make the connections.

  15. #15
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2011
    Location: Wild and Wooly West of Ireland
    Great backstory for Brother Murus' untimely demise!
    It also hints at the possibility of surreptitious sub-factions within the Order. Factions who would seek a different path to achieve a common goal, and paving the way for the rise of Karras, perhaps?
    You just gotta love Thief lore!

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: Jan 2015
    Interesting thread. I'm just playing through T:G for only the second time, and just got to RTtC, so it's it'll be interesting to look at all the notes and remind myself of what actually happened there.

    I wonder what prompted the Hammers to even bring the Eye to their cathedral to begin with - let alone try to use it. I suppose it being some evil magical artefact was reason enough alone for them to want to get hold of it and keep it out of the wrong hands. But you'd think the Keepers should have been on the ball and hidden it away themselves, before leaving it in the hands of religious fanatics.

  17. #17
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: College Place, WA
    From the intro text of the level, I presume they captured the Eye from Constantine in some attack.
    "Shall we not use this power, as our enemies used it unto us?"

  18. #18
    Member
    Registered: May 2005
    Location: Full on Kevel's mom
    I suspect Murus was an innocent bystander, perhaps seeing that his colleagues were up to mischief and went out to see what they were doing. Then that's when everything went wrong and he was killed accidentally- or to hide what the others were doing, which may mean that he could have escaped the eye's corrupting power. Since Murus appears to be virtuous and can resist the eye's influence, I would suspect this to be more likely than he was the cause or part of it.

  19. #19
    Member
    Registered: Apr 2014
    Murus himself didn't say much about the past and his relation to the actions with Eye. And readables are scarce and cryptic about his fate. So it's really open question. It is possible that he was seeking some kind of redemption during RTTC events.

  20. #20
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2020
    I was eight years old when this thread was created. lol. Interesting seeing this kind of stuff. Never really used the internet back then and was completely ignorant to the very concept of these kinds of sites existing.

    But yeah, having played through Thief Gold again recently, I sort of had the impression that Murus had something to do with the eye, as I recall seeing a note of a hammerite expressing guilt over the death of one of his brothers or something like that.

    The fact he asks you to do so much for him and those who haven't been buried and those who have become Haunts is honestly a pretty cool way of forcing Garret into the kind of position that the Keepers raised and trained him to enter. Someone who tries to maintain balance in the world and not a self-serving thief. I was pretty frustrated with how much I was asked to do before finally getting out of the level, but then I imagined that Garret himself must have been feeling that way as well.

    All in all, this was a great level for mixing things up and having Garret using his skill for something other than stealing. A great bit of foreshadowing as to what's to come later.

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