TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Results 1 to 23 of 23

Thread: Thief3: No Equipment Limits

  1. #1
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: France

    Thief3: No Equipment Limits

    Hi,

    I started playing Thief3 again a few days ago, and wrote this little program to remove the limits to the equipment Garrett can carry.

    I used the offsets provided by a guy name Saracoth on these fora. I know he wrote a program to alter them, but he used the .NET framework and the JAVA runtime environment, so you have to download heaps of stuff to make the programs run, which amounts to killing a fly with a machine gun IMHO.

    This prog is < 200 Ko, and should run on any Windows box. cf the readme for more info.

    I don't know if there are still people playing Thief3, but here it is anyway...

    -> Download / Read the Readme / See screenshots.
    Last edited by Gamall; 23rd Apr 2007 at 09:20.

  2. #2
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Well, this should silence all the people who are constantly complaining that Garrett isn't quite enough of a walking arsenal in TDS.

  3. #3
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2004
    And TDP, and TMA.

  4. #4
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: City on the Edge of Tomorrow
    That may be, but with the open, free-moving design of TDS, where you (can) return to the streets and collect the arrows, visit the fences and your apartment every day, I don't think it would be that much of a stretch to think that Garrett would collect those arrows and - since most here seem to complain that he shouldn't carry so much stuff around- stash them in his apartments.

    I didn't like it in Thief 1 or 2, when you couldn't take the saved or found equipment from one mission to the next, so at least that was bettered imo.

    But to go then ahead and impose another silly restriction on equipment...
    They could have limited the total amount of arrows, ok. But to say, you may carry 20 of those but only 5 of these seems ludicrous to me...

    Anyway, I'm looking forward to using that program; makes it a lot easier to fool around.


    Btw,just for the records: although I am against any equipment restrictions, I am a follower of the "ghosting way" which actually forbids use of any equipment thatwould make NPCs suspicious (or would make people suspicious in RL)

  5. #5
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Meisterdieb View Post
    I didn't like it in Thief 1 or 2, when you couldn't take the saved or found equipment from one mission to the next, so at least that was bettered imo.
    That was an intentional design decision to prevent people like you from hoarding equipment from one mission to the next.

  6. #6
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: France
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    That was an intentional design decision to prevent people like you from hoarding equipment from one mission to the next.
    No kidding...

    What if some people actually like hoarding stuff ?

    The fact that some feature is deliberate does not mean you have to wholeheartedly agree with it, lest the Builder smites thou in His wrath...

    Neither does the fact that someone disagrees with a given feature mean they believe it a glitch.
    Last edited by Gamall; 23rd Apr 2007 at 14:08.

  7. #7
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    Location: City on the Edge of Tomorrow
    Quote Originally Posted by ZylonBane View Post
    That was an intentional design decision to prevent people like you from hoarding equipment from one mission to the next.
    And why should they not allow hoarding?
    What's wrong with collecting everything? Although I realize one should try to explain where all the hundreds of arrows, breath bottles, oil flasks etc are stashed away, because even I agree that Garrett shouldn't carry around tons of stuff- it's hard enough explaining where he pust the tons of loot...

  8. #8
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Thanks for alerting us to this! I love to hoard equipment, but i am a minimalist and i try to use no expendable equipment at all.

    As for them designing the game not to allow you to 'hoard' equipment. It's probably for gameplay reasons, if you can hoard stuff then in the later/tougher levels they could make it easier to get through. There's also the technical limitations of the Dark Engine, too many flashbombs going off can crash the game, of course doesn't apply to T3.
    Last edited by shadows; 23rd Apr 2007 at 14:43.

  9. #9
    ZylonBane
    Registered: Sep 2000
    Location: ZylonBane
    Quote Originally Posted by Meisterdieb View Post
    And why should they not allow hoarding?
    What's wrong with collecting everything?
    Because it farks with the game balance. Thief is not an RPG. Every mission is designed to be played as a self-contained entity. Yes, you can buy more equipment based on how well you did in the previous mission, but even then they placed strict limits on how much equipment is available for sale. Heck, most missions are designed so that you don't really need any consumable equipment to finish them.

    The creators of Thief have stated explicitly in interviews that equipment doesn't carry over so that players will actually USE the equipment, as opposed to living in fear that they might need all this stuff in some future mission. Obsessive hoarding is a disfunctional behavior, so anything that discourages this is a Good Thing.

  10. #10
    Member
    Registered: Mar 2005
    You know, a klepto could download this mod and then spend the rest of his life in front of a bush taking moss arrows because he can always fit "just one more"

  11. #11
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: France
    If that is their definition of fun (and assuming moss arrows respawned like that, which is not the case), then by all means, let them do just that !

    But they will be thwarted, because I only put the limit to 999. Not quite enough to fill a lifetime.

    For these taffers, perhaps I ought to raise the bar to 2 billions or something...
    Last edited by Gamall; 24th Apr 2007 at 02:15.

  12. #12
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2007
    Location: The grotto, Virginia
    Personally, I only had a need to start camping when I found that BFG9000 that was ever so cleverly hidden in StoneMarket . . . forget all the other arrows, man, that BFG roxurz!

  13. #13
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2005
    Location: Alberta, Canada
    I probably shouldn't jump into this dangerous topic, but I had to say something.

    I am one of those people who like to hoarde as well . . .for those times when I 'really need it'. Even in TG and TMA I have it set so I can buy everything in a loadout screen. I grab it all.

    . . .

    then use none of it. Or very little. I always have this feeling that I will need something in there. . .then end up playing through entire mission saving it all because somewhere near the end I'm going to need those 50 water arrows. . .which of course I never do. Then i've played it and know what I need where and still hoarde the stuff just in case. Its strange but true. I would say I like to have the options if I suddenly decide to do something different.

    Its not a problem, in my opinion, since how I play doesn't spoil it for me, and certainly doesn't hurt anyone else. Except, perhaps, Garrett's back. . .

  14. #14
    jtr7
    Guest
    Like Elentari, I hoard for about the same reasons, except I do have moments where I quicksave and unload a bunch of it, usually on the AI, but not necessarily--just experimenting or switching mental gears. Then I quickload and play without using much of the gear.

    Sometimes, if I'm in a hurry, but gotta get a Thiefy fix, I'll use the stuff to keep the AI out of my way as I run around. I don't take out the AI chasing me or the ones alerted as I pass, just the ones blocking my path. Goin' crazy. I love the atmosphere of the Thief universe, so serious play isn't necessary to get a quick fix.

    "Don't worry, ladies, just passing through...."

    Otherwise I take hours to play through the maps, since I like to clear levels. Having only played TDP and TMA through only twice each, and Gold and TDS only once each, I've had to squeeze in what Thief I could. Now that I own them all and have a machine to play them on, I'll be able to play more seriously and take my time. Hopefully I'll acquire the skills to "ghost" when possible. Until then, I'm hoarding, just in case I get so caught up in the game I forget to quicksave, then make a mistake!

  15. #15
    Permanently Enlarged
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: I could care...but I won't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamall View Post
    For these taffers, perhaps I ought to raise the bar to 2 billions or something...
    Theres a limit to how much equip you can have, depending on how big they (the programmers) made the limiting variables.

    This is how it works (at least in C++):

    Short: From -127 to +127 (or 0-256, if unsigned)
    Regular: From -32,768 to +32,768 (or 0-65,536, if unsigned)
    Long: From -2,147,483,648 to +2,147,483,648 (or 0-4,294,967,295, if unsigned)


    Ive set the max to 65535, and it worked, so its either a regular-type, or a long, in which case, the upper limit is, as stated, 4,294,967,295 of any given item. Which is still a god-awful amount of ammo, no matter HOW you go about it (and a hell of a lot of money).

  16. #16
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: France
    I didn't say two billions at random :P In case you didn't notice, 2,147,483,647 ~2 billions.

    The var is stored as a signed integer (= signed long), so the limit is roughly two billions (2,147,483,647 if you really really love figures).

    By the way,

    Regular: From -32,768 to +32,768 (or 0-65,536, if unsigned)
    That is what you read in books, however, this type doesn't really exist on 32 bits systems. Only on 16 bits systems. Maybe something like "short int" in C++ (But there is really no point in using short ints (16 bits) on 32 bits systems anyway...), which is confusing with your "short" type which is in fact a "char", using C++ terminology...
    (and the bounds you gave are not all exactly correct either: 0-255 and not 0-256 etc...)

    edit: made a little demo, if you want to play around with how integer values are stored in memory (notice the inverted bytes).

    All this is more than slightly off topic anyway.
    Last edited by Gamall; 29th Apr 2007 at 06:40.

  17. #17
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2006

    Hi there!
    I have a littel technical problem: when I use the program, it telly me that the T3gamesys.t3u has an inadequate length. What can I do since I don't have a proper program for editing manually?
    Thanks in advance!

  18. #18
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: France
    If it tells you that, you most certainly have an already edited T3gamesys.t3u.

    AFAIK, there is no reason whatsoever that a genuine T3gamesys.t3u should have a non-standard length. (I have only tested on 1.1, but I'm pretty sure T3gamesys.t3u is not affected by the patch, so it should work with 1.0 too... not that there is any reason to play on 1.0... Tell me which version you use though, just in case I'm wrong on that account)

    To see whether or not your T3Gamesys is unmodified (which I doubt), please make a md5 hash of it... it should be dbefda1507ec3c1fe1932efbd90a706f . If it is, then I'm baffled... If it is not, there are two things which I could do to help you...

    1 I could upload an unmodified T3Gamesys, which you could then patch using my mod. (alternatively, you could just reinstall T3 )

    2 I could alter my program so that it goes on even if the length is inadequate... however, I had good reasons for not allowing that in the first place: if the file has been tampered with, especially if its length has changed, the offsets can have changed, which will render my mod useless at best, lethal for the game in the worst case

  19. #19
    New Member
    Registered: Dec 2006
    Yeah, I tested it with the hash - it's modified although I have no idea why. I just use version 1.1 and the collective texture pack; maybe it is that? And if you could be so nice to upload an unmodified gamesys, I'd be very happy (maybe others too with similar problems); otherwise I'd have to re-install everything and that so not fun ^^

    Thanks again

    EDIT: Okay, I just found the problem: I had a fanmission installed with Garettloader. When I reinstalled the original game, the gamesys was fine ^^;;; Sorry for me being to silly not to think of it.... >.<

  20. #20
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: France
    I uploaded the thing anyway, before you edited your post, on the dev topic.

    It might be useful in the future for those who omit to backup their file before blithely messing it up...
    Last edited by Gamall; 1st May 2007 at 14:05.

  21. #21
    Permanently Enlarged
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: I could care...but I won't.
    Quote Originally Posted by Gamall View Post
    I didn't say two billions at random :P In case you didn't notice, 2,147,483,647 ~2 billions.

    The var is stored as a signed integer (= signed long), so the limit is roughly two billions (2,147,483,647 if you really really love figures).

    By the way,



    That is what you read in books, however, this type doesn't really exist on 32 bits systems. Only on 16 bits systems. Maybe something like "short int" in C++ (But there is really no point in using short ints (16 bits) on 32 bits systems anyway...), which is confusing with your "short" type which is in fact a "char", using C++ terminology...
    (and the bounds you gave are not all exactly correct either: 0-255 and not 0-256 etc...)

    edit: made a little demo, if you want to play around with how integer values are stored in memory (notice the inverted bytes).

    All this is more than slightly off topic anyway.

    Well, i was using the calculator prog to convert em cuz my compiler was acting up, so it could possibly be off... but yeah, that was a lol OT.. I think the Builder'll forgive me.

    Also, i noticed w/ the price editor thingy, that no matter what i set the price for Fire Arrows to, they always stayed the same, is that possibly a mistake in the addy that was edited as the price, but was really something else?

  22. #22
    New Member
    Registered: Apr 2007
    Location: France
    Quote Originally Posted by RavynousHunter View Post
    Also, i noticed w/ the price editor thingy, that no matter what i set the price for Fire Arrows to, they always stayed the same, is that possibly a mistake in the addy that was edited as the price, but was really something else?
    1 This thread is for discussing my program, which is about carrying limits and not prices, so you should post that in the appropriate thread

    Still, since I know the answer, I'll answer your question despite its offtopicness :P

    -> AFAIK, the offset of the price for the Fire arrow is unknown as of yet. The offset given here (3DC07 - Fire Crystal, FA (250)) is trivially incorrect, as the price is wrong (225 != 250). Saracoth acknowledged that fact in the very same thread So you can't change the price of your Fire arrows, sorry...

    Let's get back on-topic

  23. #23
    Permanently Enlarged
    Registered: Dec 2005
    Location: I could care...but I won't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gamall View Post
    So you can't change the price of your Fire arrows, sorry...

    Let's get back on-topic
    Sry for goin OT, but as for the prices, its only a matter of time, theres a lot of smart taffers out there (excluding myself, of course, i got post-HS plans to worry about atm) so it shouldnt be THAT hard.

    As for the limits, I know that stuff's easily edited. Personally, I just bypass the limits using Tsearch. Just can't beat the convenience of memory hacking sometimes, eh? Sides, I wanna mess w/ the core T3 files as little as possible, somethin about it I just dont trust (quite possibly its vile lizard tounge).

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •