TTLG|Thief|Bioshock|System Shock|Deus Ex|Mobile
Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 51 to 75 of 121

Thread: A Keeper's Betrayal Mar. 21/03

  1. #51
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Hmm, I was wondering about the Hammer scoring system. How many people have to review it before getting a score. Also, how often do people write reviews for missions?
    FM in Progress: Bane III
    Previous FMs: CoSaS III- THE NINE YEAR SLEEP (content released), Keep of Deceit, Cult of the Damned and A Keeper's Betrayal.

  2. #52
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2002
    [edit]Uh, forget it.[/edit]

  3. #53
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2002
    Location: Denmark
    Excellent work! A Keeper's Betrayal was pretty good, and hard.... Even though I didn't need the spoilers, was it very hard at times... Thumbs up!
    Come back out here you Taffer..

  4. #54
    New Member
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Location: Neverland

    Just finished this mission (with a little help from the forum, thanx taffers).
    And i must say this is one will be on my list of best FM i have played, great exploring and climbing. The switches and keys are sometimes a bit hard to find, but i like that.
    A real Thief experience.


  5. #55
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Key question

    [Folks]

    I just started playing this one; a lot of fun. I've ghosted so far, but I see by reading this thread that I won't be able to continue doing that for long .

    But I have an odd problem: I got Malvyne's key and opened a door at the inn. There is a guy (Malvyne?) sleeping inside... but I can't find anything else in there! I missed the Keeper thingie in the sewers... does whatever is supposed to be in Malvyne's room only appear after I go into the sewer Keeper room?

    The only objective I've knocked off is the Keeper medallion. I thought I searched the antique dealer's room thoroughly, but I guess I missed something (which I already read about uptopic).

    I guess I'll go back to the two things I missed, then return to the inn.

    Dafydd

  6. #56
    Member
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: Findlay OH USA
    All the links to DL this mission seem broken now.
    I am so bummed out now.

  7. #57
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    You can download it at The Circle or Cheap Missions

  8. #58
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Okay, stumped

    [Anyone]

    I'm in a circular room with a green ceiling and rafters. There's a platform at the opposite end with a guy standing there, and a circular hole in the middle of the room with vapor rising from it.

    spoiler:
    I'm assuming the man is Keeper Boffo, or whatever his name is, and I have to kill him. But how do I get up to him? The green ceiling looked like rope arrows would stick in it, and they do... but no rope comes down. I tried shooting a rope arrow into the bookcase next to the man, and the arrow stuck -- but again, no rope came down. I tried running and jumping to mantle up to the platform, but it appears to be just a little too high.

    I shot him full of arrows from behind. Very full. Forty-four broadheads... but it didn't affect him. I don't have a fire arrow. I tried just jumping into the hole, but I fell through a starfield until I died.


    Am I in the right place? What am I supposed to do?

    Thanks,

    Dafydd

  9. #59
    Edumacated
    Registered: Oct 2002
    Location: Location:
    hehe! my heart jumped when i saw the title of this thread just now, cuz my future fm is "The Eye's Betrayal" , doh! Anyways, great to hear about your fm, i look foward to playing it!
    ThiefFm Editor, Producer, and Designer of The Bluecoat's Training Facility. Sequal Fm, -> The Eye's Betrayal. 36% complete ==> CANCELLED.

  10. #60
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Dafydd, I think your first problem is solved as you're in the final stage.

    If you look at the ceiling of the chamber carefully, you'll see a part of the carpet/plaster has fallen off, exposing the wooden planks under it. You can find this spot by looking straight up where the piece of green carpet has fallen on the ground.

    About Keeper Bouron taking 44 arrows...er...that seems like a bug. He only takes about 16 arrows (I actually placed 44 arrows in that mission!!!). Try climbing up the ledge as I just described and hacking him with your sword. As this is the first time I've ever heard of this problem I suppose your download might have been corrupted or something.

    Anyway, hope this helped.

  11. #61
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Thanks....

    [theImmortalThief]

    Thanks, TIF, I'll give it a shot. Uh, literally!

    Dafydd

  12. #62
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Strange question

    [tIF, or anyone]

    I got past the stuck point above.

    spoiler:
    I wasn't able to jump onto the rafters, despite trying a couple of dozen times starting from different heights on the rope; so I had to jump onto the actual platform with Keeper Beefheart (I can never remember that name!) This meant an ugly tete-a-tete, which I really hate... very unthiefly. I managed to kill him, even though I could only hit him with overhead strokes; my sideways strokes kept hitting empty air, despite being easily close enough to have hit a normal person. Maybe Keeper Bunion is heartless?

    I progressed pretty rapidly after that. I looted as much of the Keeper stronghold as I could ghost -- I had to leave behind the lovely gold nugget in the fountain because there was no way to get into the water, even down the stairs, without alerting guards. I returned to town and got on top of the weapons-shop roof for the secret, I got the skull, I looted a jeweler. So now, the only remaining objective is, strangely enough, the very first: to enter the guard station and find out what happened to Keeper Taffer -- the T-name, whatever it was.

    Thing is, I already know what happened to him -- he was the thief killed (or who committed suicide) down by the docks, dropping the sewer key for me to find. This was explained in a document in Keeper Buffet's office.


    Shouldn't reading this have checked off that objective? I was already in what I think is the guard station -- building with a set of outside stairs leading up to a door, another door on the ground level, an archer lady up on a rooftop halfway up the stairs -- and I didn't spot anything that would tell me what happened to Mr. T; I was in the high muckety-muck's office opposite the door of the stairs; evidently I have to go somewhere else to fulfill that objective.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks,

    Dafydd

  13. #63
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Never mind, found it

    [theImmortalThief]

    All right, I found it: I had to go into the room where the Keeper's body was laid out.

    All in all, I really liked this mission... but there is a consistent -- not problem so much as choice you made that bothered me. Nearly all the mission was ghostable, except for two instances, plus one of the objectives.

    (Edited Note: this FM is actually ghostable, but only by using arcane and bizarre quirks of the Dark engine. See my post below at:

    http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthrea...898#post907898

    ...which links to three full write-ups by Peter Smith, Vanguard, and myself.)

    Instance one: In order to get Keeper Bouran's key, I had to crawl through a tunnel; but since the tunnel was blocked by a banner, I had to slash it. This busts a ghost; and since it's not a specific objective (it says get the key; it doesn't say "slash the banner"), there is no defense.

    instance two: On the trek through the maze to the room where the Book of Earth is kept, at one point I had to pass a spider that was just about as big as the corridor he was in. There was an unfrobbable mushroom lighting it. I couldn't pass him without him seeing me and alerting -- a ghost bust -- so out of desperation, I killed it. I don't know; maybe somebody better at ghosting could have gotten past (I tried shooting a moss arrow and jumping over the spider onto the moss, but he noticed me flying over his head and attacked). But it seemed unghostable to me.

    Also, there were several instances, for example, right at the very end, where I couldn't get to a place I had to without either alerting a guard -- or else nudging a guard. Of course I chose the latter each time... but while that's allowed, I get the impression that it's sort of frowned upon.

    And then, there is the objective that requires killing someone. That's technically allowable, since it's a specific objective; but it still doesn't quite feel like Thief to me. Particularly the way you have to do it: in this version, I think the rafters are too close to the ceiling to jump onto from a rope arrow... so I had to jump right in front of the target and play Conan.

    I can certainly understand that most people don't like playing ghost; but I always find it a delight when a mission allows players to complete all the objectives while still ghosting, if they want to do so.

    As it was, I ghosted everything except those two instances I mentioned: no other second alerts or kills, no other damage given to property or AIs, and no damage taken except in the aforementioned brawl. No KOs, no backstabs. 1866 out of 2191 loot, 3/3 secrets.

    Aside from the ghost business, which is just a matter of taste, I found this FM creative, atmospheric, very playable, and several elements were very nostalgic , such as the Keeper compound, which of course reminded me of Equilibrium (one of my all-time favorites).

    A great FM -- but in your next one, could you make it a little more ghost-friendly, please?

    Thanks,

    Dafydd

  14. #64
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
    I apologize for the ghosting problem. I've kept that in mind so far in my FM in develpoment. Actually this mission has been ghosted by Peter Smith (the report is on the eidos forum, can't find it at the moment) but it wasn't a very clean job because of certain problems you pointed out.

    Dafydd, you know, now that you've gone through all the trouble of typing this, you could just edit it a little and submit it at the circle as a review for my mission. I would really appreciate that, as it has not been officially reviewed yet.

  15. #65
    Originally posted by kfort
    I found an alternative way to kill the Keeper, which some people may find easier.

    I ran in quickly and shot a rope arrow into the exposed wood, then quickly climbed up the rope. He noticed me, but is rather slow at shooting, so I was able to get in to position unharmed. Next I dropped down onto the balcony, ran around behind him and blackjacked the little sucker! Once he was down, killing him was easy (if rather unsporting).

    Enjoy!
    I did exactly the same thing! Well, almost It didn't occur to me to try to BJ him directly because usually you can't BJ an AI once they're alerted. So, I just got on the balcony, flash bombed him and then whacked him. I was hoping to just drop him through the hole in the floor to finish him off (at least it would be little more thief-like that way) but alas, it didn't work.

    Excellent mission. I had a lot of fun with this one!

    I read through this thread after completing the mission and I have a question:

    spoiler:
    getting into the sewer - the only way I found was the secret on top of the weapons dealer. After reading this thread I'm led to believe there's another way in? If so, I couldn't find it. Please enlighten me.


    Thanks!

  16. #66
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Sewers

    [JackOfTrades]

    There is a key in the water down below the docks, where a thief was killed (a document mentions he dropped a sewer key there). Dive down and get it; then you can enter the sewers either by the door or the manhole cover... one of which you must have escaped from to get out!

    [tIT]

    Uh... how did Peter Smith get Bouros's key without having to slash a banner? Lemmie go see if I can find his post....

    Dafydd

  17. #67
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Okay, read Peter's ghosting report...

    [Folks]

    ...which y'all can read here:

    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...555#post179555

    I withdraw my claim that it's un-ghostable... but it's ghostable only by the most bizarre object behavior, something that would never be discovered except by two freak accidents:

    1) that if you drop the "Keeper's notes" books, rather than fall, they levitate... and you can mantle onto them like floating platforms. Peter used two of them to climb up beside the water column to get the key, rather than slashing a banner;

    2) that you can nudge the spider down the corridor, right up to a corner... and then if you squeeze hard enough, she will "squirt" abruptly left down the ell, and once in a blue moon -- you need this -- will spontaneously squirt a second time around the next corner left, getting out of your hair.

    So yes, technically, this is a ghost... but it's a ghost only the likes of Deadman or Peter Smith could ever possibly carry out; and it's a ghost that depends upon some very weird properties of the Dark engine that, as far as I'm concerned, are not any more natural than banner transmigration, which has been disallowed on grounds that it just exploits engine oddities and isn't really anything a human could conceivably do.

    Now, if there were some indication in the game that dropping those books would give you a platform you could stand on, so that there was a fair chance of discovering it, then I would give you the banner thing. You'd still have the spider problem: nudging is one thing, but nobody else has ever before managed to get an AI to "squirt" like a watermelon seed down a corridor. And a bank shot on top of that!

    For us normal humans I wouldn't call this mission ghostable... but it could be made ghostable by (a) a line in one of the Keeper's Notes books about how the author had to reach a book on a high shelf, and he discovered that dropping this book gave him a platform he could stand on... and how did Old Keeper So-and-So manage to make his book do that? And (b), by turning down the spider's hearing so that you can jump over her, if you moss the landing zone beind her.

    As I said, a great mission except for those things... and if you made the lighting on the platform where Bouros stands a little lower, so that with preliminary mossing you can jump from the rope and land undetected, giving you a chance (with great sneakiness) to ghost around behind him for a backstab or a KO, followed by hacking the comatose body, it would be an added inducement to ghost -- though of course even doing it the way I did doesn't bust the ghost, because it's a named objective.

    Dafydd

  18. #68
    Ok, I see now. There are two sewer keys. The one inside the locked sewer access room (with the note outside the door) and the one I missed in the water. I had jumped in there, just didn't look hard enough.

    Thanks Dafydd.

  19. #69
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Review for "the Circle"

    [tIT]

    Dafydd, you know, now that you've gone through all the trouble of typing this, you could just edit it a little and submit it at the circle as a review for my mission. I would really appreciate that, as it has not been officially reviewed yet.
    All right; where do I send it? I tried the link at http://www.thief-thecircle.com (which mails to thiefnews@ttlg.com, oddly enough), but it got bounced back to me as "host unknown."

    So I tried thiefnews@thief-thecircle.com, but that didn't work either (non-local host... not a gateway).

    Dafydd

  20. #70
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Ghosted!

    [the Immortal Thief]

    I'm pleased to say I successfully ghosted this FM, following the trail blazed by Peter Smith and by Vanguard; unless others have managed and not mentioned it -- seems unlikely, considering how it must be done -- I think I'm the third person to ghost this mission.

    I wrote it up here:

    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...513#post273513

    But anyone interested in the specifics should first read Peter Smith's post (first person to ghost this supposedly "unghostable" FM):

    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...555#post179555

    ...then Vanguard's ghost-post immediately following.

    You have to do two wacky things to ghost this mission: first, you have to figure out how to use a pair of floating books to work your way up to a particular key without taking the easy route (which requires slashing a banner, a no-no while ghosting); second, you have to get past a giant spider blocking a narrow corridor, which you can only do using a bizarre technique called "spider squirting," invented by Peter.

    (The floating-book effect was discovered by Deadfall:

    http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthr...562#post164562

    ...but he failed to ghost because of the spider.)

    But I succeeded, albeit as an also-ran, and I'm happy.

    Dafydd

  21. #71
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
    Try this address, dafydd:
    detodd@rwtodd.com
    You also might find the second half of this page useful:
    http://www.thief-thecircle.com/missions/submissions/

    Cangrats on successfully ghosting the mission. It's a real achievment.

  22. #72
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Third attempt to e-mail review

    [theImmortalThief]

    ----- The following addresses had permanent fatal errors -----
    (detodd@rwtodd.com)
    (reason: 550 Host unknown)

    ----- Transcript of session follows -----
    550 5.1.2 (detodd@rwtodd.com)... Host unknown (Name server: rwtodd.com: host not found)
    Um, any more suggestions?

    Dafydd

  23. #73
    Moderator
    Registered: May 2000
    Location: Thunder Bay, On., Canada
    Send a PM to Digital Nightfall about it. That should get through and then he can give you contact information.

  24. #74
    Member
    Registered: Oct 2001
    Location: Minneapolis, MN, USA
    There seems to be some problem with all the emails in the TTLG network. My emails to GBM kept on bouncing back and I had to use PMs.

  25. #75
    *downloads* (cos i was intriuged by the title!)

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •