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Thread: T2 FM: The Way of The Sword (Hammerite Contest Entry) 14 NOV 2007

  1. #76
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003
    When I touch the Talisman of Death, I die; I'm guessing I need to bless the rosary in order to survive. To do that, I must get into the Observatory... but I can't open the lock.

    The best key I have is a Brothers Key, but that won't work. I think I need the Abbott's Key, but I don't know where that is. I read a note saying that he left it in his chamber... but how do I get into his chamber without the key?

    Any hints would be nice; I'm trying to ghost, but I might do a KO run just to explore the place (then reload from before I did).

    Edit: Hah, all right. Nevermind: The Brothers Key opens the Abbott's room!

    Dafydd
    Last edited by Dafydd; 17th Nov 2007 at 09:12.

  2. #77
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2003
    Location: Sheffield, UK
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoj55 View Post
    esme

    spoiler:
    on ninja you only have 3 minutes to get the sword from the time the first generator is turned off, you are doing them in the correct order (order doesn't matter but its most direct) are the blue lights off on the base? they must be. the generator in the basement near the crypts is not part of the puzzle.
    AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAaaaaaaagggggh I was doing the wrong one! no wonder it didn't work

    still the other way worked

    excellent mission btw absolutely beautiful I loved the look of it , makes everything I've tried so far look like a 2 day old chimp drew it tho
    Last edited by Esme; 17th Nov 2007 at 11:48.

  3. #78
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2006
    Location: On the tip of your tongue.
    Very nice mission - lots of custom stuff and good use of classic Hammerite ambients. Suffered a little from being a keyhunt, but the puzzles were logical and intuitive, and the keys were relatively easy to find so it didn't spoil the mission. Just a shame this was the only entry. More Hammerite missions of this calibre would have been great!

  4. #79
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    about the sword generators

    spoiler:
    there is japanese text on the floor of the sword room that matches the involved generators, it may be hard to see the writing on them since its so dark, you'll have to use a flare i think.

  5. #80
    Member
    Registered: May 2002
    Location: Ostrava City
    Quote Originally Posted by Dawggon View Post
    ALL THOSE BEAMS AND NOT ONE ROPE ARROW...aghhh
    Dawggon: no need of rope arrows ...

    Roof1 - Outside - Observatory - Roof2 (click for bigger)




    Jason: great FM, outstanding atmosphere, very enjoyable !!!

  6. #81
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    One weird thing about the disguise...

    I got the disguise from the novice in the bathhouse.

    It worked fine for a while... but even though I never got caught -- never tried to nick a key and failed, never drew even a single level-one alert ("come into the light, so I may see thee, brother")... and yet even so, about an hour fifteen into the mission, one of the Hammerites with a pointy hat suddenly started recognizing me as an enemy.

    I reloaded and avoided him, but as the mission progressed, more and more of the AI began seeing through my disguise. Towards the end, I've had to go into full ghost mode, because all except one or two of them now see me as a thief, not a novice.

    Did you design it so that it "wears off" after a while, Jason? Or is there some problem? I'm very certain I didn't get caught doing anything I oughtn't... at least, nobody went into even the lowest level of alert, and I never missed a pick.

    Dafydd

  7. #82
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003

    Need loot (don't we all?)

    I've completed all the other objectives, and I have all the secrets, but I'm still short; I need 3,600, and I have but 3,387, so I need 213 or more. I'm soooo-ooooo close...!

    Where is there some easy-to-miss loot? I'm usually pretty bad at spotting hidden loot, and I know there is north of 3,900 somewhere in the mission...

    Help!

    Thanks,

    Dafydd

  8. #83
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    try the various pools and ponds for coins, there is a easy to miss goblet behind the generator in the kitchen, all the secrets have some loot, some easy to miss rings on shelves in the bedrooms.

    as far as i know the disguise won't wear off. however if a guard was nearby when you entered a forbidden area it would wear off him if he was close without an obvious sign that he was alerted. its a simple stim/receptron system. perhaps had i known about it i would have made them do something if they noticed an opened door that shouldn't have been. also, individual guards might go into an alert and lose the metaproperty that keeps them oblivious to you for other reasons. it has happened to me on some beta tests. so even with a disguise i still try to avoid contact.

  9. #84
    Member
    Registered: Jan 2003
    Heh, I was getting super frustrated with the loot last night myself. I had 3200 or so and double checked everywhere and couldn't believe ~700 was escaping my notice! Then I realized about half the dorm rooms have those annoyingly tiny rings on the shelves. DOH!: Now I'm only about 40 short, which I can live with.

    BTW Ottoj55, for whatever reason all of your gorgeous missions somehow escaped my notice and it was only the other night that I stumbled across your webpage via this thread. Wait, actually that's not true, I had played the clocktower before and when I realized you were the guy behind that visual masterpiece I immediately proceeded to download all your missions and play them back to back. One of the best FM experiences I've ever had. Thank you!

  10. #85
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Otto
    perhaps had i known about it i would have made them do something if they noticed an opened door that shouldn't have been.
    Jason, if you ever decide to do a version 1.2, I think that would be an excellent thing to implement. If I'd known that even seeing an open door that should be shut would cause them to see through my disguise, even though they never alerted, I would have been careful to shut all doors behind me.

    If they react, saying "How cometh this door to be open?" or something like that, then I'd say, "oops!" -- then reload and replay that section.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Otto
    also, individual guards might go into an alert and lose the metaproperty that keeps them oblivious to you for other reasons.
    Huh... what else could alert a guard? There are no other AI in the place besides me, the temple people, and maybe a rat or two.

    Do guards alert each other?

    Dafydd

  11. #86
    Member
    Registered: Jul 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Dafydd View Post
    Do guards alert each other?
    Generally when playing Thief, if i alert one guard and he goes near non-alert guards, yes they all get alert.

  12. #87
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Shadows, no I mean if I alert no guards... can they self-generate an alert out of nothing?

    As I said before, I was careful and alerted no guards... not even by a failed attempt to pickpocket. But Jason suggested that if a guard became alerted by some other means (besides anything I did), he would then see through my disguise.

    It seems contagious, by the way: Guards that had no contact with other guards -- such as the guy standing in the garden near the bathhouse, the guy standing at the front gate, the guard in the center of the dorms, or the guard down near the workshops -- never did see through my disguise.

    The other guards did so in a pattern that suggested that when an AI who had penetrated my disguise bumped into or came very near another AI who had not figured out I was a fake, then the second AI "caught" the "see through the disguise" germ from the first AI. Thereafter, if the second AI saw me, he would alert and go after me.

    I finally finished with a semi-clean ghost (I went for the optional disguise thingie, which requires KOing a novice -- which is a ghost bust). I found the loot I needed in the pool in the garden, the pool in the center of the dormatories, and one ring on one shelf I had missed the first time through. That just barely put me over the top -- 3,616, I believe.

    The redesigned victory stats page doesn't list the number of pickpockets, for some reason; so I don't know if I got all of the keys.

    Dafydd

  13. #88
    jtr7
    Guest
    Happy birthday, Jason!

  14. #89
    Member
    Registered: Jun 2007
    Location: Cragscleft, Bedfordshire, Eng.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dia View Post
    And: what's the crystal ball for???
    Dia,

    The crystal ball is a hint - it shows the location of all the talismans (talismen?).

  15. #90
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    yup, the crystal ball was just a hint to the locations, nothing too serious, it is a demonstration of the trapcamattach and random relay for the most part

  16. #91
    Moderator
    Registered: Apr 2003
    Location: Wales
    Well I tried to wish you A Very Happy Birthdayin the thread over in Thief Gen but it wasn't having any of it and after I posted, some of the previous posts also disappeared.

    Hopefully this one will stick!!


    OK - things seem to be working again in ThiefGen.
    Last edited by nickie; 18th Nov 2007 at 13:16.

  17. #92
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Ottoj55 View Post
    the disguise only works once no matter which guy it came off and each one only works on the guy it came from also if caught with or w\o it on it stops working your cover has been blown
    When I found the first disguise it didn't work, but with the second guy it worked and got ticked off. Don't know why though.

  18. #93
    Member
    Registered: Aug 2004
    Location: netherlands
    whow, what an absolutly great mision.
    loved every minute of it.. ( and there were a lot of them )

    spoiler:
    only thing I missed was the objective to make the potion....
    found all of the ingredients but 1
    did read here that the last one was near where I found the rosary... problem is that I found the rosary somewhere at the start of the mision and I really can't remember where that was...


    ofcourse I want to try it.... any suggestions...?

  19. #94
    Vertical Contest Winner 2009
    Registered: Sep 2002
    Location: The Great White North
    the potion near the rosary

    spoiler:
    in the basement near the crypts, the storage room in the north west corner, try those crate.

  20. #95
    Ghost
    Registered: Aug 2003
    Quote Originally Posted by Jason Otto
    in the basement near the crypts, the storage room in the north west corner, try those crate.
    I think that should be south-west corner... the room you enter from the duct system (the three-level stairs are to your right). And there are two potions there; there is only one in the boiler room.

    Dafydd

  21. #96
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Germany
    Just wanted to give some feedback:

    Overall I really like the mission. I especially like this pulsing hammering sound, which creates a really stressfull atmosphere. As if something happens quite soon. Everytime I hear it, I try to remember which movie it reminds me off. I thought it might be 24 or Matrix, but I'm not sure. I definitely know that I know this theme though.
    The level layout is really nice even though I wonder about several rooms which are apparently only there for Thief gameplay, and not because someone would build a house in such a way. Anyway, it's great to explore it and big enough to not feel cramped. Just like it should be.

    Some things that I absolutely didn't like is this Ninja setting. The main menu looks quite horrible to me and I don't know but the chinese/japanese style doesn't really fit IMO. Also on the map there are chinese symbols which I can't make anything out of it. Are they relevant or not? The same on the powerplugs where the sword is. Are they relevant or not?

    Another thing that I also didn't like was: The letter told you that all the rooms with upside down hammers are off limits. After trying several of them with the guard key, I noticed that this is true and ignored them, until I find a brothers key or the abbots key. Because of this I didn't find the brothers key, because it is in the one room that is marked with the hammer but is still able to be opened by the guard key. I found this quite unfair and a bad decision, because the player would have to ignore the information given, and simply blindly try all doors, or find it by reading spoilers.


    But not to take it the wrong way, I still think that it's a great mission which keeps you motivated to go on.

  22. #97
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2007
    Location: Finland
    Thank you, Ottoj55, for a truly gorgeous mission! Sushi and apples looking so good I could eat them...not to mention everything else

    I need help though -- I must be really slow -- where's the Talisman of Metal? I've got the key and found the others
    spoiler:
    (library, kitchen, baths, cave). The crystal ball is of no help...it just makes me feel D'uh I've been to all these places


    I also think I hit a bug
    spoiler:
    I didn't need the fifth talisman, I was able to frob the Talisman of Death between the bars, probably because I was carrying a blessed object. Bling, the objective checked off...

  23. #98
    Member
    Registered: Dec 2003
    Location: Making Larry Miserable
    I think the talsiman of metal is
    spoiler:
    next to the observatory in a workshop.


    Some things that I absolutely didn't like is this Ninja setting.
    I agree that the ninja setting just didn't work however noone can dispute the quality of the FM as a whole.

  24. #99
    Member
    Registered: Nov 2002
    Location: Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by The_Dude View Post
    I think the talsiman of metal is
    spoiler:
    next to the observatory in a workshop.
    And where is the key?

    I agree that the ninja setting just didn't work however noone can dispute the quality of the FM as a whole.
    Yes. That was my saying.

    BTW: I found the screwdriver and disabled that generator, but what is the point of it? I didn't notice any particular effect, but it might be that I disabled it early, so I may not have noticed anything because I was not far enough into the mission.

  25. #100
    New Member
    Registered: Nov 2007
    Location: Finland
    sparhawk -- the screwdriver
    spoiler:
    disables a generator.
    A major spoiler:
    spoiler:
    This disables a fan in the tunnels -- which is going to be of huge help especially on ninja


    Thanks The_Dude! I guess it was one of those, was it four, or five that I saw?!

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